SNCF abolishes ticket validation ("compostage")

[AY1975]

As well as RATP phasing out paper tickets as covered in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/end-of-the-line-for-paris’-iconic-metro-ticket.237990/ another time-honoured feature of French ticketing systems is also now on its way out: SNCF ticket validators ("composteurs").

I have seen a number of reports saying that as of 1st January paper tickets issued on standard SNCF ticket stock no longer need to be validated ("composté") before boarding the train, including this one (in French):

SNCF: les machines à composter les billets vont disparaître des gares

Les petites bornes jaunes ont de moins en moins d'utilité alors que plus de 9 billets sur 10 sont aujourd'hui dématérialisés. Mais leur maintien coûte cher à la SNCF.

www.bfmtv.com

There is also this YouTube video with footage of the 1970s/80s orange validators as well as the existing yellow ones:

I could see this happening sooner or later: after all, most passengers on TGVs and Intercités trains now use e-tickets or self-print tickets, and tickets on regional (TER) trains are now only valid on the day of issue (or on the date specified when buying the ticket) whereas they used to be valid for two months from the date of issue.

Already for the last few years, some TER tickets have said on them “Composté à (date and time)” (validated at (date and time)), and I have sometimes heard booking office clerks saying to passengers “Votre billet est déjà composté” (your ticket is already validated).

The above article does seem to say that if you have a paper ticket issued on standard SNCF ticket stock you now have to approach the train conductor before boarding the train to validate it, though. That would be a bit of a pain for frail elderly people who don’t use modern technology and still have to use paper tickets, especially if the guard is standing at the opposite end of the train from where they wanted to get on.

I am guessing that this leaves Italy as the only European country where all paper tickets issued on standard ticket stock, whether for local or long-distance journeys, still have to be validated before boarding.

 

[Mag_seven]

I remember when I first came across a composteur in France in the 80s wondering how I would get my Interail Pass into the slot for validation!

 

[duncanp]

The above article does seem to say that if you have a paper ticket issued on standard SNCF ticket stock you now have to approach the train conductor before boarding the train to validate it, though. That would be a bit of a pain for frail elderly people who don’t use modern technology and still have to use paper tickets, especially if the guard is standing at the opposite end of the train from where they wanted to get on.

The article does indeed say that you are supposed to approach the conductor, but that if there is a ticket inspection the conductor will remind the passenger of the correct procedure, and no fines will be levied.

This should be a fairly small problem, because it only really affects people who buy a ticket for immediate travel from a machine at the station.

When you buy such a ticket (for the TER trains at least), you have to select the date you want to travel on (which can be in the future) and when the ticket is printed it will have the time and date of issue on it.

Compostage of tickets was more relevant when most tickets were bought from the ticket office or machine, and they were valid for travel on any date in the next fourteen days.

Then there was every incentive not to validate the ticket, so that it could be re-used or re-sold.

 

[newmilton]

It was always the word itself that amused me (and I speak French and have a francophone wife), which apparently has its origins in the proof given to pilgrims who had completed the pilgrimage to Compostela. There is a perfectly good French word for 'validate' ... valider.

 

[D6130]

I am guessing that this leaves Italy as the only European country where all paper tickets issued on standard ticket stock, whether for local or long-distance journeys, still have to be validated before boarding.

Now only applicable to tickets for regional trains. All InterCity and high-speed services are subject to compulsory reservation with the date, train and seat number(s) specified on the ticket.

 

[eastwestdivide]

It was always the word itself that amused me (and I speak French and have a francophone wife), which apparently has its origins in the proof given to pilgrims who had completed the pilgrimage to Compostela. There is a perfectly good French word for 'validate' ... valider.

The Treasury of the French Language at https://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/composteur suggests it derives from compositeur (English: compositor), the person who arranges movable type for printing. i.e. ultimately from "to compose".
Is it possible the Compostela link is a back-formation?

 

[Bletchleyite]

SBB still has machines but these are only for stamping multi-journey tickets. Did they ever require "compostage" for singles?

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Just as a disclaimer: this abolition of composting is not applicable to Transilien, TER Sud PACA and TER Nouvelle Aquitaine

 

[rvdborgt]

Now only applicable to tickets for regional trains. All InterCity and high-speed services are subject to compulsory reservation with the date, train and seat number(s) specified on the ticket.

There are still a few Intercité trains with optional reservations.

 

[D6130]

There are still a few Intercité trains with optional reservations.

Apologies for the misunderstanding....my comment referred to @AY1975 's post about Italy.

 

[AY1975]

Just as a disclaimer: this abolition of composting is not applicable to Transilien, TER Sud PACA and TER Nouvelle Aquitaine

Does this mean that paper tickets for travel in these areas do still need to be composted?

Keeping it in those areas but not elsewhere could potentially confuse passengers, especially if they are visiting those areas and live in an area where it has been abolished.

Then again, I believe that most if not all Transilien trains are driver-only, meaning you can't approach the conductor to validate your ticket because there isn't one.

 

[busestrains]

At most stations in the Paris area they have two types of ticket validators next to each other. There is a yellow one and a grey one. I have attached a photo. But elsewhere there only seems to be one type. Does anyone know what the difference is? Are they getting rid of both types?

 

[DanielB]

Based on the images on the validators, the left one is to be used for tickets having a magnetic strip and the right one for tickets without magnetic strip? By the looks the right one would damage such a strip while stamping, where the left one stamps at a different location.

 

[DeverseSam]

I guess integrated city tickets in places like Strasbourg? Nantes? still need to be composted for trips within city limits

 

[AY1975]

Based on the images on the validators, the left one is to be used for tickets having a magnetic strip and the right one for tickets without magnetic strip? By the looks the right one would damage such a strip while stamping, where the left one stamps at a different location.

I've only seen the grey ones at the Gare du Nord, and they look just like the old style orange ones that were used from the 1970s/80s until the early 2000s apart from being grey instead of orange. I don't know why they've kept some of the old style ones at the Gare du Nord but not anywhere else.

If anything I'd say it's the other way round: I think the yellow ones were only designed to take tickets that were issued on standard SNCF ticket stock with a magnetic stripe, whereas you could just put any old bit of paper in the old style ones.

Some stations have ticket machines that issue tickets for TER trains on smaller ticket stock without a magnetic stripe. A few years ago I came across one of those machines at Auxerre St Gervais station but with some difficulty I managed to validate one of those tickets in a normal yellow validator.

Further to my query in entry #11 above, this article does indeed confirm that "compostage" will remain on Transilien, TER Sud PACA and TER Nouvelle Acquitaine at least for the time being. It also says it is expected to be abolished on TER Nomad (Normandie) from 21st January and on TER AURA (Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes) from 1st March.

SNCF : les bornes de compostage vont disparaître des gares

Face à l'utilisation massive des billets numériques, la SNCF a décidé de mettre fin au compostage des billets. Une mesure qui change la donne en gare depuis le 1er janvier 2023.

actu.fr

 

[CC 72100]

At most stations in the Paris area they have two types of ticket validators next to each other. There is a yellow one and a grey one. I have attached a photo. But elsewhere there only seems to be one type. Does anyone know what the difference is? Are they getting rid of both types?

View attachment 126830

Left one is for Ile-de-France tickets. Think it is only the 'origin-destination' (point to point tickets) that would need stamping, can't think of anything else that would require a stamp. They are small tickets; same size as Paris metro.

Yellow one is for main line tickets (the big ones).

 

[zero]

SBB still has machines but these are only for stamping multi-journey tickets. Did they ever require "compostage" for singles?

It seems possible to buy single tickets "for later use" at some or all machines so I would assume these require validation.

I'd never worked out how to validate a TER ticket (the type in the video in the first post, from 0:12 to 0:17). I have tried doing what the video shows many times but the machine never reacted.

So it's positive for me if doing this is no longer required, but I've also never been checked on a train when travelling with such a ticket, and I have done so many times.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

I'd never worked out how to validate a TER ticket (the type in the video in the first post, from 0:12 to 0:17). I have tried doing what the video shows many times but the machine never reacted.

There is usually a message saying move it to the left, or turn it over, before there is a stamping sound

 

[Re 4/4]

SBB still has machines but these are only for stamping multi-journey tickets. Did they ever require "compostage" for singles?

Not the usual ones, but there were special offers in the past together with coop and others where you got a ticket that was valid on one day of your choice, if I remember correctly.

 

[MarkyT]

The above article does seem to say that if you have a paper ticket issued on standard SNCF ticket stock you now have to approach the train conductor before boarding the train to validate it, though. That would be a bit of a pain for frail elderly people who don’t use modern technology and still have to use paper tickets, especially if the guard is standing at the opposite end of the train from where they wanted to get on.

Also seems to be a poor move from a performance perspective, i.e. 'apologies for the delayed departure while we await the frail old lady walking the length of the train'. Also if there's a large number of such passengers to deal with the time to see each ticket before boarding could be substantial, particularly if there's some stamping/punching activity required. Crowding and luggage congestion could then be a issue at the single door all passengers with this type of would then likely be attempting to board at. Might also be a risk distracting from dispatch safety duties if guards have a role in this still (assuming they must if they're getting out onto the platform).

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Just as a disclaimer: this abolition of composting is not applicable to Transilien, TER Sud PACA and TER Nouvelle Aquitaine

Indeed. SNCF isn't one company, there are separate TER entities all doing their own thing.

In the same way that Co-op in the UK isn't one supermarket chain, it's different ones for each region despite sometimes having the same products.

 

[rvdborgt]

Indeed. SNCF isn't one company, there are separate TER entities all doing their own thing.

It's the French regions doing their own thing since they became responsible for train fares.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

In future the regions will put operation of TER services out to tender.

 

[AY1975]

I remember when I first came across a composteur in France in the 80s wondering how I would get my Interail Pass into the slot for validation!

Interrail, and other rail passes such as Eurail, didn't need validating, although whenever I used an Interrail in France, if I had a separate reservation coupon I always used to validate it to be on the safe side, but they very rarely asked to see your reservation.

Sometimes SNCF used to issue separate reservation coupons on their standard ticket stock, and you were supposed to validate those as they used to say "à composter avant l'accés au train".

In pre-Eurostar days, ordinary point-to-point tickets issued by British Rail International, including rail-sea-rail tickets, were issued as a set of coupons in a booklet of similar size to the present day SNCF ticket stock. You used to get separate coupons for the rail and the sea part of the journey, with the sea coupon usually being detached at the ferry terminal (often in exchange for a ferry boarding card) before boarding the ferry.

My dad told me that some people had told him that the rail coupon did need to be validated when using such a ticket in France (and for international journeys starting in France) and some people had told him that this wasn't necessary, so to be on the safe side we always used to validate the rail coupon. As mentioned above, you could put any old bit of paper in the old-style orange validators.

I believe that the old-style validators used to stamp a series of numbers on your ticket, including the station reference number and the day of the year: 001 for 1st Jan, 002 for 2nd Jan, 003 for 3rd Jan etc up to 365 for 31st Dec. Not sure what SNCF used to do whenever there was a leap year: presumably they would manually reset them at some point during or at the end of a leap year. That is, assuming that they weren't sophisticated enough to be specially programmed to go up to 366 instead of 365.

 

[dutchflyer]

SBB still has machines but these are only for stamping multi-journey tickets. Did they ever require "compostage" for singles?

Maybe-but certainly ON SBB+others for local ´Verbund´ tickets in some areas. Not just date, also start-time could be important.
In german-the main language: entwerten. (where as logical reasoning would say one does not DE-validate, buy make it worth the trip!)

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

No, SBB-CFF-FFS did not require compostage for singles. If 'auto-controle' applies, ie. no on train conductors, you have to hold a valid ticket but do not have cancel it yourself. If do not have a valid ticket, fines of c.CHF 200 are applied, more if you've been caught before. On trains with conductors, they will cancel it. However, use of the SBB-CFF-FFS and similar ticketing apps is now almost universal so there is very little physical cancelling taking place these days from observation over the past few months.

 

[AY1975]

I guess integrated city tickets in places like Strasbourg? Nantes? still need to be composted for trips within city limits

SNCF tickets, no; bus/tram/metro tickets, yes, would be my guess.