Smoking on the train.

[baz962]

As a driver I would refuse to take the train. Apart from the anti social aspect it's a potential fire risk and I won't have it.

 

[Krokodil]

Life's a lot easier when you just decide some things don't bother you so much. Yes, smoking on a train is not nice at all. But so what? I'm not going to rat a smoker out to the police.

It's more than "not nice", it's ****ing disgusting. Smoking in a confined space with no opening windows is a foul thing to do. It's also dangerous, I remember a news report of a woman who managed to set herself on fire (fatally) when smoking in the bog, I think that it was in the Wolverton area. I would certainly be texting it in, plus possibly using the Call For Aid to alert train crew if possible. If I was in uniform his feet wouldn't touch.

We're constantly being told that the BTP are overstretched and spread way too thinly. As annoying as it might be, contacting them about someone smoking on a train probably isn't worth it. They'll be long gone by the time anyone shows up to investigate, and might take an officer away from a more important thing. The vast majority of smokers aren't the sort to wilfully break the rules, but someone who does is more likely to ignore other rules or laws, and challenging them could end badly.

If they are in the right place at the right time, they will gladly deal with minor issues. For the sake of a 10p text it's very much worth reporting. Resources are provided to match the scale of recorded issues in a given area, if no one reports anything then senior officers will assume that no crime happens and cut back on officers.

 

[Edsmith]

Smoking on a train is totally unacceptable and I would certainly contact BTP about it. I've only experienced this once in recent years, two teenage girls smoking although they did extinguish them when challenged and claimed that they didn't know it was illegal.

 

[Krokodil]

claimed that they didn't know it was illegal

That's up there with "my dog ate my ticket"

 

[AlterEgo]

It's more than "not nice", it's ****ing disgusting. Smoking in a confined space with no opening windows is a foul thing to do. It's also dangerous, I remember a news report of a woman who managed to set herself on fire (fatally) when smoking in the bog, I think that it was in the Wolverton area. I would certainly be texting it in, plus possibly using the Call For Aid to alert train crew if possible. If I was in uniform his feet wouldn't touch.

That was between MK and Leighton Buzzard and was a suicide. The woman was not smoking and set herself alight with a petrol canister and lighter because she had killed her own son. I was on duty during this incident dealing with the disruption.

Racked by guilt after killing her son, six, exactly 14 years ago, mother dies setting fire to herself on train

Rachel James ignited a can of highly flammable gas in the lavatory of the London-bound train on Monday, causing a large explosion.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Feet wouldn’t touch” is cringey machismo for a low level matter like smoking on the train.

 

[Krokodil]

“Feet wouldn’t touch” is cringey machismo for a low level matter like smoking on the train.

I have removed passengers from trains for smoking before, and I'll do it again. Even at 1am.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have removed passengers from trains for smoking before, and I'll do it again. Even at 1am.

Not by manhandling them you wouldn’t.

 

[brad465]

Smoking is still a thing??? These days it's either weed, vaping or nothing, I don't often see or smell tobacco smoking.

 

[jon0844]

I agree regular cigarette smoking is relatively rare now, anywhere not just trains. Vaping on trains is now common and on platforms.

But if someone is smoking on a train, reporting is surely worthwhile even if the police aren't likely to down tools from another job and come running. It will be logged and some bean counter looks at the logs to consider how many BTP officers are needed and where to deploy them.

Perhaps the smoker is lucky today but not next week when BTP decide to travel on the train for a bit. And then there are REOs and other staff that might get alerted and if lucky, a PA might get made to give a gentle reminder etc.

 

[E27007]

That’s not the case for everyone. Someone was smoking on a bus I was travelling on. Small hours of a Sunday morning.

I told him to put it out. He did, reluctantly and tried to give some backchat. Another passenger told him to stop was he was doing. And a third. Then another beast of a bloke came from the back to ensure the smoking ban was being enforced.

Well done, it is often then case no-one will make the intial challenge, then one individual takes the lead, and other like-minded individuals support the leader, we then have not an individual but a pressure group.
Any Psychologists or Criminologists who may comment on the phenomenon of "group social policing" against those who break the rules as I have described?

 

[ivorytoast28]

Can't believe anyone here is defending this. We all know smoking indoors has been long illegal. Not to mention it's disgusting and harmful for all around. Sure if someone was on a dry train chilling with a beer or even admitted they didn't have a correct ticket I'd mind my business and let the authorities decide should they arrive. But this is not a simple issue of someone breaking a rule that doesn't involve those around. I'd be straight up complaining to anyone who'd listen and hopefully all would. The age of cancer spreading on trains should be long gone. If it was a platform outside it's a totally different matter. But on modern trains where you can't even open the window for "air regulation" or whatever rubbish (yes not being able to open a window is equally stupid but) smoking is a hazard and harming everyone around

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2023 ==

Smoking is still a thing??? These days it's either weed, vaping or nothing, I don't often see or smell tobacco smoking.

Good. None of those things are ideal but are all better than cancerous cigs

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2023 ==

I have removed passengers from trains for smoking before, and I'll do it again. Even at 1am.

Good on you, as you should

 

[duncanp]

Can't believe anyone here is defending this. We all know smoking indoors has been long illegal. Not to mention it's disgusting and harmful for all around. Sure if someone was on a dry train chilling with a beer or even admitted they didn't have a correct ticket I'd mind my business and let the authorities decide should they arrive. But this is not a simple issue of someone breaking a rule that doesn't involve those around. I'd be straight up complaining to anyone who'd listen and hopefully all would. The age of cancer spreading on trains should be long gone. If it was a platform outside it's a totally different matter. But on modern trains where you can't even open the window for "air regulation" or whatever rubbish (yes not being able to open a window is equally stupid but) smoking is a hazard and harming everyone around

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2023 ==


Good. None of those things are ideal but are all better than cancerous cigs

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2023 ==


Good on you, as you should

I am not sure that anyone is saying that smoking should be permitted on trains.

It is more that people are questioning whether it is worth challenging someone who is breaking the rules, given the likelihood of the smoker responding in a violent and aggressive way.

Contrast this with the situation in pubs, where virtually no-one smokes indoors because they know that the bar staff will tell them to stop, refuse to serve them any more, and ask them to leave the pub.

People's propensity to commit offences is affected by the probability of getting caught, and the probability of suffering negative consequences as a result.

I do think it is worth reporting the matter to the BTP and the relevant TOC, even if nothing gets done immediately. They can build up a picture of where these offences are occurring, and decide where to concentrate resources.

 

[Robcuk]

I used to smell weed regularly driving round the loop - probably 6/7 days out of 10. Passengers would literally sit right behind you and get it out of a tin - absolutely disgusting smell. The smoke alarms used to be quite sensitive and go off regularly but they must have reduced the sensitivity as after a few years in service I don't remember hearing of any alarms activating. I bet most days some folk would try their luck and either vape or smoke. Now I work for a TOC with a guard I've smelt weed twice in just over a year - an added benefit of having a second person on the train.

 

[reb0118]

Remember folks if you see a fire, however small, and it's safe to do so, you can extinguish it with the handy red devices found in every railway carriage.

 

[Falcon1200]

I am not sure that anyone is saying that smoking should be permitted on trains.

Agree, but if people are saying that smokers on trains should not be challenged, for whatever reason, then smoking on trains is accepted, despite not being permitted.

Personally I would assess the risk before challenging a smoker, or indeed a feet-on-the-seater, for example. On a busy train with other people around, yes; Late at night with no-one else nearby, probably not!

 

[Parallel]

My parents used to smoke a lot when I was younger and now I can no longer stand the smell of smoke. If it was just one randomer smoking on a train, I’d probably say ‘do you know that you can’t smoke on board’ and if they carried on, I’d move to another carriage and report them to either staff or the BTP. If it was a rowdy group, I probably wouldn’t confront them but probably still report them. That said, I have been on a train late at night where a group of people were smoking out the windows, but everyone on board seemed to be drunk, the crew were nowhere to be seen and it was a rural route so it was unlikely the BTP would be able to deal with it at that time of night so I didn’t bother.

 

[spyinthesky]

As a smoker, nowadays I wouldn’t even consider smoking inside anywhere, even in my own home.
I would certainly challenge anyone who is doing so

 

[Lost property]

I don't have a hard stance on smoking, other than in confined spaces, and I've never seen anybody smoke on a train..vaping however, is just as bad and some people look like they're auditioning for a scene in "The Railway Children " in this respect.

i do, however, get far more concerned when excessive alcohol is being consumed and have a "memorable " journey from Euston to Man one evening when the train was dry...in theory. Unfortunately, the BTP officer who attended was cowed by the "upper level of society " accents and allowed them to continue, thereafter, they made the journey a misery for everybody else in the carriage. have to say, it's also been a pleasure to watch BTP officers deal "robustly " with drunks.

Weed has it's own distinctive "aroma" and was quite prominent around the back entrance to Derby adjacent to the Academy during break times.

However, when it comes to trains, and other confined spaces, I suggest you look at those brown streaks on old aircraft near the outflow valves...this is tar and would clog the valve affecting pressurisation and air cond. The best thing that happened was when airlines banned smoking on board, albeit you still get the odd imbecile who tries to smoke in a toilet compartment unaware there are smoke detectors you can't see in place.

 

[Master29]

We're constantly being told that the BTP are overstretched and spread way too thinly. As annoying as it might be, contacting them about someone smoking on a train probably isn't worth it. They'll be long gone by the time anyone shows up to investigate, and might take an officer away from a more important thing. The vast majority of smokers aren't the sort to wilfully break the rules, but someone who does is more likely to ignore other rules or laws, and challenging them could end badly.

This is just a cultural attitude and your opinion.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This is just a cultural attitude and your opinion.

Where did I say it wasn't my opinion? This thread is full of opinions, pointing that out isn't the zinger you think it is.

If you're lucky enough to be built like a brick outhouse, then by all means go ahead and enforce the rules when you see someone smaller than you breaking them. I personally think that life's too short to worry about such things. It's not particularly nice if someone is smoking on your train, but despite some of the hyperbole on this thread it won't do you much more damage than walking down the high street. It's not as if there's people sparking up on every service.

 

[Krokodil]

Not by manhandling them you wouldn’t.

It was a figure of speech. Mind you, in one case his feet barely touched the ground as I carried his bag off of the train and placed it on the platform, locking the doors behind him as he followed it.

Can't believe anyone here is defending this.

I can. No matter what the subject, you can always find someone on here to defend the indefensible or argue that black is white.

Agree, but if people are saying that smokers on trains should not be challenged, for whatever reason, then smoking on trains is accepted, despite not being permitted.

I can understand people not wanting to risk their personal safety by getting directly involved, but the whole point of 61016 is that it's discreet. Some posters however seemed to be actually minimising the issue.

 

[faltskog36abba]

I was on the last stopping train from Liverpool to Man Vic about ten years ago, My mate lit up a fag as others were doing it and someone reported her. The guard came flying out of the cab and said put that cigarette out-[Loud enough for others to hear], Then said on the quiet- If you need to smoke go in the toilet - As I have to be seen doing my job/It was a 142 so no smoke Alarms.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

I'd go ballistic if I caught someone smoking on a train I was working.

 

[Master29]

Where did I say it wasn't my opinion? This thread is full of opinions, pointing that out isn't the zinger you think it is.

If you're lucky enough to be built like a brick outhouse, then by all means go ahead and enforce the rules when you see someone smaller than you breaking them. I personally think that life's too short to worry about such things. It's not particularly nice if someone is smoking on your train, but despite some of the hyperbole on this thread it won't do you much more damage than walking down the high street. It's not as if there's people sparking up on every service..

It's not the same as walking down a high street. It's outside so a different situation. Anyone who would smoke on a train is clearly looking to upset people. I get the point about life being too short but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged and not necessarily with confrontation.

 

[scrapy]

I stood out in the rain at Fairfield station on Saturday afternoon as the small shelter had been taken over by four local youths smoking cigarettes and dope. I thought about 61016 but only had a few minutes to wait for train and didn't want to bother Police on such a minor matter.

It wouldn't 'bother' the police. Giving them intelligence about where the youths hang out is actually quite helpful. It's up to the police to then decide if they have the resources to 'bother' attending and often they probably won't but they may do if they have someone who is passing the area. If they then get multiple similar reports over a month or so they might send someone down.

 

[Chucky]

I once saw a guy get badly beaten up for asking someone to stop smoking on a train and I'd bear that incident in mind before challenging someone now.

As a passenger, if I fancied a confrontation/fight or I thought I could intimidate the person smoking then I'd say something, more likely though I'd just move to a different carriage and avoid the confrontation altogether. I wouldn't bother trying to delay the train or getting the police involved - I doubt they'd come out for a smoker anyway.

I don't see it as a big thing really - it can be as big or small as you want it to be. Worse things happen at sea. Life's too short to stress out over some scrote having a fag in my opinion.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is full of opinions, pointing that out isn't the zinger you think it is.

Not really; many more people are disagreeing with your opinion actually.

If you're lucky enough to be built like a brick outhouse, then by all means go ahead and enforce the rules when you see someone smaller than you breaking them.

What a strange thing to say. I do wonder what your life experiences are at times.

I personally think that life's too short to worry about such things. It's not particularly nice if someone is smoking on your train, but despite some of the hyperbole on this thread it won't do you much more damage than walking down the high street. It's not as if there's people sparking up on every service.

You are entitled to your opinions but all you are doing is repeating the same unconvincing arguments, making false equivalents and attempting to be dismissive of legitimate concerns held by numerous people.

Some opinions have more gravitas than others and your opinion is based on a viewpoint that is very different to the majority view. I'm not sure if you are deliberately trying to wind people up or not but it's certainly having that effect.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2023 ==

I once saw a guy get badly beaten up for asking someone to stop smoking on a train and I'd bear that incident in mind before challenging someone now.

As a passenger, if I fancied a confrontation/fight or I thought I could intimidate the person smoking then I'd say something, more likely though I'd just move to a different carriage and avoid the confrontation altogether. I wouldn't bother trying to delay the train or getting the police involved - I doubt they'd come out for a smoker anyway.

I don't see it as a big thing really - it can be as big or small as you want it to be. Worse things happen at sea. Life's too short to stress out over some scrote having a fag in my opinion.

That's your choice but I will report it, and unless I deem the situation too dangerous to do so, I will also challenge them.

And yes they will come out for a smoker if they can; it depends on what else is going on. By your own admission if someone is smoking on a train it indicates the person my be someone of interest to the police.

 

[Tevion539]

I once saw a guy get badly beaten up for asking someone to stop smoking on a train and I'd bear that incident in mind before challenging someone now.

As a passenger, if I fancied a confrontation/fight or I thought I could intimidate the person smoking then I'd say something, more likely though I'd just move to a different carriage and avoid the confrontation altogether. I wouldn't bother trying to delay the train or getting the police involved - I doubt they'd come out for a smoker anyway.

I don't see it as a big thing really - it can be as big or small as you want it to be. Worse things happen at sea. Life's too short to stress out over some scrote having a fag in my opinion.

And if everyone had this attitude, with no fear of consequences, then more people would feel inclined to smoke illegally. Life too short? Sure. That's another reason to not allow it - I don't think it's very nice to risk someone else's health when life is so short. Kind of selfish, don't you think?

 

[jon0844]

One of the reasons people do what they do is that they can say 'what are you going to do about it?' and know the answer is usually little to nothing. Then people push the boundaries and petty crimes become more serious crimes.

However, people are fearful of being stabbed or assaulted and while it might be rare, you never know when someone will flip these days.

As said before, if someone does stand up then usually others will follow - but who goes first?

 

[Master29]

I once saw a guy get badly beaten up for asking someone to stop smoking on a train and I'd bear that incident in mind before challenging someone now.

As a passenger, if I fancied a confrontation/fight or I thought I could intimidate the person smoking then I'd say something, more likely though I'd just move to a different carriage and avoid the confrontation altogether. I wouldn't bother trying to delay the train or getting the police involved - I doubt they'd come out for a smoker anyway.

I don't see it as a big thing really - it can be as big or small as you want it to be. Worse things happen at sea. Life's too short to stress out over some scrote having a fag in my opinion.

"You don't see it as a big thing" in one quote and in the other you say you saw a guy badly beaten up. This is why you miss the point.

One of the reasons people do what they do is that they can say 'what are you going to do about it?' and know the answer is usually little to nothing. Then people push the boundaries and petty crimes become more serious crimes.

However, people are fearful of being stabbed or assaulted and while it might be rare, you never know when someone will flip these days.

As said before, if someone does stand up then usually others will follow - but who goes first?

This exactly.