Smoking on Railway Platforms

[Butts]

When the Smoking Legislation came in a few years ago why were platforms in Railway Stations included even if they "are in the open". This is not an enclosed space like a bus shelter or station concourse.

The cynic in me suspects it was to save money on cleaning costs - if this is the case it's a shame it didn't extend to sweet wrappers and chewing gum etc.

I would have thought a lot of the guards used to pop off the train for a quick fag on stopovers never mind the passengers on long journeys:roll:

Are all Railway Stations across the UK completely non-smoking even in open spaces ?

Who enforces the ban in unmanned stations ?

 

[me123]

Are all Railway Stations across the UK completely non-smoking even in open spaces ?

Nope, stations in Scotland are only subject to the "enclosed public places" rule. On the open parts of the platforms, you are allowed to smoke. I have no idea why England banned it and Scotland didn't, but it could just be down to Scotland banning smoking before England did in the first place.

 

[Nick O. Teen]

As for unmanned stations (of which there are loads on my routes), it is, of course, completely unenforceable.

 

[Aictos]

What you also need to consider is the majority don't seem to be able to read no matter how many signs, posters, announcements etc...so smoke regardless, it's the fault of the damn Scots or Westminister whoever you wish to blame for not having a unified smoking policy across the whole UK regardless of who actually governs.

At one of my stations, ashtray bins were installed at the front of the station for smokers to use, they have now been all but removed due to vandalism and some users forcing them open to use as rubbish bins even though a rubbish bin is less then 2 minutes away.

With regards to smokers, I'm happy for them to light up as long as they keep within the law which means lighting up at the front of the station, not on the platforms if and when this policy changes so will my approach to smokers.

A number of friends of mine are smokers and that's their choice before anyone claims my post as a rant against smokers.

 

[CheekyBandit]

Nope, stations in Scotland are only subject to the "enclosed public places" rule. On the open parts of the platforms, you are allowed to smoke.

I think you are allowed to smoke on the open areas of ALL stations under this rule. However, it is the rail byelaws (which could have been enforced years before the smoking ban legislation) that can disallow it:

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

Mind you when I objected to someone smoking on a train - apart from telling the passenger to put it out, the conductor did nowt else about it.

 

[rail-britain]

Nope, stations in Scotland are only subject to the "enclosed public places" rule. On the open parts of the platforms, you are allowed to smoke

In Scotland an enclosed area was defined as three walls, a roof, and one open side :
(b) has a ceiling and, except for doors and windows, is completely enclosed on all sides by solid floor-to-ceiling walls
The idea was to also include bus shelters
It was actually an oversight and error that stations were not included

It could argued that some stations, where the smoking ban is enforced, it does not apply as it does not meet the requirement
Example such as Edinburgh Waverley, Ayr, etc as it has two walls, a roof, and two open sides

However, the legislation clearly states :
"public transportation facilities" includes train stations, bus stations, bus shelters, waiting rooms, ticket offices and terminal buildings provided in connection with any public transportation vehicle

It is this ambiquity which has resulted in arguments that smoking is permitted on platforms
Sadly it is NOT the case, but rather than end up in court First ScotRail only enforces in the building structures
Network Rail enforces throughout the entire station

 

[Mr Spock]

I think that the "whole" station being declared no smoking was to make it easier as once you allow part then people would encroach on to other parts.

As for enforcing the law I do not think lots of stations bother to much these days.

I was at Doncaster last week and at the top of the stairs a couple lit up and there were two BT police within 20 yards who just looked at them and said nowt, within 2/3 minutes 2 members of staff walked past them and both just looked and carried on without saying anything.

Personally it does not bother me to much as long as the smoker is not near me or affecting me with drifting smoke.

 

[RPM]

Personally, speaking as a non-smoker, I think it is a completely daft rule and it largely unenforcable. Imposing rules that cannot be enforced makes the rule and indeed the rule maker look stupid and I think it does the railway no favours.

 

[Butts]

Interesting comments - perhaps on open platforms they could provide smoking zones like they do in some countries abroad.

With regard to Scotland I live in Falkirk and I'm sure there are signs up saying the whole station including platforms are designated non-smoking.

One station I remember as always being non-smoking even before the ban was Birmingham New Street (probably because a lot of it is "underground"

Are there any countries that still have smoking carriages - last time I remember smoking on a train was in Poland about three years ago

 

[Wyvern]

In many stations you are in more danger from brake dust and, especially, exhaust fumes from idling Voyagers.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

This was one of the more ill thought out bits of byelaws and a perfect example of a jobsworths charter. The original no smoking laws which the railways jumped on without giving any thoughts to the consequences was to ban smoking in "substantially enclosed" public places. A substantially enclosed space would be a large terminus station or perhaps a largely covered station like New Street. Now consider somewhere like Retford low level, or Avon Beach, or Nutfield or a hundred other stations that are basisically an platform with a bus shelter. All this bye law does in this case is to enable some whining Daily Mail/Express little Englander to start dripping for no good reason and a member of rail staff to get on their high horse. Go outside Kings Cross station on the pavement between their and the outside entrance to the tube or the exit/entrance on the platform 1 side and you can hardly breathe for cigarette smoke as passengers and staff are having one. Meanwhile, in St. Pancras people are choking on diesel fumes.

 

[Greenback]

In Swansea, too, everyone gathers around the entrance. I don't see why an area couldn;t be set aside for smoking on the platforms, it seems to work well in other countries.

 

[talltim]

My search on the forum brought this thead up next the Dancing on Ice one. Perhaps there's the basis for a new TV show?

 

[Capybara]

In Swansea, too, everyone gathers around the entrance. I don't see why an area couldn;t be set aside for smoking on the platforms, it seems to work well in other countries.

Try going out of the side entrance at Waterloo by Platform 1. You come out of the other side practically kippered. I was interested to read a notice in Koblenz last year explaining that the Bahnhof was 'rauch frei'. Yet there were smoking areas on the platforms.

 

[Nick O. Teen]

In Swansea, too, everyone gathers around the entrance. I don't see why an area couldn;t be set aside for smoking on the platforms, it seems to work well in other countries.

Sorry, Greenback; I hate to be sceptical, but this is Modern Britain, and your idea is far too straight-forward and sensible. For that reason it will not be implemented.

 

[Freakofnature]

Isn't the governments stance more about stopping people smoking than providing them with places to smoke?

Totally stupid.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....One station I remember as always being non-smoking even before the ban was Birmingham New Street (probably because a lot of it is "underground"....

Birmingham New Street, Kings Cross Thameslink and City Thameslink were non-smoking under the Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989/1401) which was made under Section 12 of the Fire Precautions Act 1971, following the fire at Kings Cross in 1987.

There may be other stations on the National Rail network under those regulations. The fire Precautions Regulations have now been replaced by the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

All I do is warn anyone smoking on railway premises to be careful as they can get prosecuted, some have no idea and some don't care, Traincrew can never enforce it as we just don't have the resources.

 

[Crossover]

Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to think there is a station in the UK somewhere (a single platform station at the end of a branch, I believe on a coastline) where smoking is allowed in the open part of the platform....and the one that I heard is now going to bug me until I find it!

 

[EltonRoad]

Fishguard Harbour, as the station is owned by Stena, and the end of the platform is a level crossing and it was deemed too dangerous to congregate there, so the council are allowing it on the platform. (Think that's right!)

 

[Waddon]

The rules even apply on tram platforms, which can be little more than raised paved areas in the middle of public streets, so yes, it's pretty unenforceable. Especially as, in many places, there's no noticeable divide between railway property and public property

 

[Zamracene749]

Was still allowed in Poland last year- i'm almost craving nicotine after a long journey from Poznan to Gydnia in a 1st class compo with two chain smokers :-0

Oddly enough, after offering to share the ciggies the accepted thing to do seemed to be to close the compartment door (fair enough) but also the windows whilst lit up- presumably so that others in the coach or outside wouldn't have to suffer..... and this was in 35 degree heat!

 

[Talent Search]

I think we should follow some stations in Europe's example and have smoking deisgnated areas on the platforms.

 

[dk1]

Most railway staff think it ridiculous to stop people smoking in open areas such as platform ends. As long as its not under the canopy or on the concourse we turn a blind eye.

 

[Matt Taylor]

One of the issues involved is the fact that at manned stations the platforms are also workplaces for rail staff and as smoking in the workplace is not permitted the only way to apply the law correctly is to make all platforms non-smoking.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned this yet:

What are the penalty amounts?

The penalties and fines for the smokefree offences set out in the Health Act 2006 are:

* Smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fixed penalty notice of £50 (discounted to £30 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale (up to £200)
* Failure to display no smoking signs in smokefree premises and vehicles as required by the new law: a fixed penalty notice of £200 (discounted to £150 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (up to £1000)
* Failing to prevent smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fine by a court not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale (up to £2500)

http://www.smokefreeengland.co.uk/faq/enforcement.html#6

Son if an employee is seen to ignore a smoker in a smoke-free area they are potentially leaving their employer open to a fine of £2500.

Just to mention...

 

[Geezertronic]

Wasn't smoking banned in the day if not only because of wooden platforms and cigarette stubs causing fires on occasion?

 

[CosherB]

Having a smoking area anywhere within or even close to a no smoking area is like having a no pi55ing section in a swimming pool.

 

[Geezertronic]

Having a smoking area anywhere within or even close to a no smoking area is like having a no pi55ing section in a swimming pool.

I'm sure it was Lee Evans that told a joke to this effect - the smoke spots the No Smoking section sign and doesn't billow that way

 

[Butts]

One of the issues involved is the fact that at manned stations the platforms are also workplaces for rail staff and as smoking in the workplace is not permitted the only way to apply the law correctly is to make all platforms non-smoking.

So how do you equate that to cafes etc that have tables that permit smoking outside the front and pubs with similar facilities - do the customers collect the crockery and process their own orders.