Smoking ban, the impact 10 years on.

[Butts]

Just remembered something from a couple of years ago, I was on my way to the Ffestitinog railway and the train had stopped at Betws-y-Coed and someone was smoking on the platform, the guard took it upon himself to scream from the rear of the train something about not smoking and put it out now.

Total over reaction in my opinion, walking up to the person smoking and reminding them it's illegal would have sufficed, I actually felt embarrassed for the smoker.

Probably an ex-smoker they tend to be the worst

 

[thenorthern]

Although except on the Tyne and Wear Metro and London Underground smoking wasn't banned on open air platforms until 2007 from memory smoking had been banned in most booking halls, waiting rooms and other station buildings at most stations since the 1980s and earlier.

I think that given that other than pubs most places such as shops, airports, restaurants, cinemas, council buildings, offices and other places had already banned smoking except in smoking rooms the smoking ban was much easier to introduce. I remember thinking in 2007 how hard it was going to introduce a smoking ban but in the end it just happened.

Until recently most places in Europe didn't have a smoking ban and many more places allowed smoking. I remember landing in Murcia in 2002 and while I was waiting for my baggage the women next to me lit up and started smoking and I found it odd.

 

[GodAtum]

Now it's worse outside stations, particular London Victoria main entrance under the canopy. Always get a face full of smoke.

 

[DarloRich]

no real impact for me. I didn't smoke 10 years ago and I dont smoke now

 

[Antman]

Now it's worse outside stations, particular London Victoria main entrance under the canopy. Always get a face full of smoke.

And the line which smokers aren't supposed to cross is very rarely enforced.

 

[thenorthern]

With the smoking ban I read an article yesterday which was the 10 year anniversary that compliance was almost 99% within 18 months of the ban starting which is incredible really.

I regularly see people using a mobile and driving even though its 13 years after December 1st 2003 and I regularly see people speeding even though its many years after 1965.

 

[Condor7]

It was on the news yesterday that there has been a dramatic drop in people that smoke. I always knew there were more none smokers than smokers but now 84% of the population are none smokers which is a massive percentage.

 

[Crossover]

The worst I came across was on a bus a couple of years ago when someone was sat vaping on the seats adjacent to me at the front of the upper deck of a double decker and was filling the whole front of the bus with plumes of steam

 

[MCSHF007]

It was on the news yesterday that there has been a dramatic drop in people that smoke. I always knew there were more none smokers than smokers but now 84% of the population are none smokers which is a massive percentage.

Yet still I'm approached on a regular basis by clearly disorganised smokers asking for 'a light'. Sorry Sir (or Madam) I don't smoke - just like (believe it or not) the vast majority of the population these days so why on earth do you assume that I do?

Always wonder why so many smokers so clearly lack the basic organisational skills necessary to ensure that they always equip themselves with 'the tools of their trade' in the first place.

 

[eMeS]

I've never smoked, but I endured National Service where cigarette smoking was the norm. In Germany I think cigarettes were cheaper than in the UK, and where RAF transport was a VW beetle with 3 out of 4 smoking, the fug could be quite intense.
Since the ban, I've eaten out in pubs etc. very much more than I did before. My problem now is the smell from gents toilets - most pubs are now OK, but there's one very prestigious London building where the well known smell can be smelt some distance from the entrance to the gents loo.

 

[adamello]

The worst I came across was on a bus a couple of years ago when someone was sat vaping on the seats adjacent to me at the front of the upper deck of a double decker and was filling the whole front of the bus with plumes of steam

Normally sickly sweet at that!

 

[northwichcat]

With the smoking ban I read an article yesterday which was the 10 year anniversary that compliance was almost 99% within 18 months of the ban starting which is incredible really.

I regularly see people using a mobile and driving even though its 13 years after December 1st 2003 and I regularly see people speeding even though its many years after 1965.

A lot of people get away with using a phone while driving because no one with authority sees them using it. If you're a pub manager and you've been told you could be fined if you let people smoke, you're going to ensure the smoking ban is complied with.

Last time I saw someone ignoring the smoking ban is when they were smoking on a station platform with a canopy. As it's debatable whether that's an enclosed public space, would they be breaching the smoking ban or actually be breaching a rail by-law?

 

[northwichcat]

Since the ban, I've eaten out in pubs etc. very much more than I did before. My problem now is the smell from gents toilets - most pubs are now OK, but there's one very prestigious London building where the well known smell can be smelt some distance from the entrance to the gents loo.

I take it you mean people actually smoke in those toilets. Even where that doesn't happen it's not uncommon for the toilets to have ventilation system to bring in outside air and for smokers to stand outside close to where the ventilation system takes in air.

 

[Clip]

Always wonder why so many smokers so clearly lack the basic organisational skills necessary to ensure that they always equip themselves with 'the tools of their trade' in the first place.

Im always forgetting my lighter. I seem to buy a new one every other day and have quite the collection at home.

 

[eMeS]

I take it you mean people actually smoke in those toilets. Even where that doesn't happen it's not uncommon for the toilets to have ventilation system to bring in outside air and for smokers to stand outside close to where the ventilation system takes in air.

No I wasn't referring to the smell of smoking - I was referring to the smell of stale urine or whatever, as a result of poor cleaning.

 

[Antman]

No I wasn't referring to the smell of smoking - I was referring to the smell of stale urine or whatever, as a result of poor cleaning.

I'm not sure how that is connected to the smoking ban?

 

[takno]

I'm not sure how that is connected to the smoking ban?

You couldn't smell it before the ban because it was masked by the smell of smoke. Same with the horrific smell of flatulence in certain real ale/guiness type pubs. Also the creeping smell of vomit, toilets and decay in many clubs.

I wouldn't want to go back to smoking in those places, but some of them became less pleasant places to be after the smoking ban than before.

 

[AY1975]

Yep, I remember the smoking carriages on the Reading slam door stock back in 2003/4. Little ashtrays built into the arm rests too. Even back then it seemed a little odd as so many other TOCs had already banned smoking.

I seem to remember that the then Network SouthEast sector introduced a blanket smoking ban on all NSE trains in 1993, with the exception of what was then the South Western Division where a small amount of smoking accommodation was retained on Class 159s, 442s and slam-door units because Waterloo to Weymouth and Exeter journeys were up to 2 to 3 hours long and at that time were deemed long enough for smokers to need to smoke. I suppose they could have only retained smoking on 159s and 442s, but they chose to keep it on their slam door units as well because they were occasionally used on Bournemouth and Weymouth services, and until 2004 South West Trains carried on with that policy.

That meant that for 11 years smokers who lived in Guildford, Alton, Portsmouth, Winchester or Southampton could feed their addiction during their commute to London, but those who lived in Littlehampton, Hastings, Dover or Ramsgate (also involving journeys of up to 2 hours) could not.

 

[GrimShady]

If you ever get the chance travel up to Crianlarich it is a well known location where both staff and passengers regularly decamp onto the Platform for a smoke during changeovers etc

The "smoking stasi" are somewhat less prevalent in the Highlands allowing for a more liberal approach.

 

[Condor7]

Last time I saw someone ignoring the smoking ban is when they were smoking on a station platform with a canopy. As it's debatable whether that's an enclosed public space, would they be breaching the smoking ban or actually be breaching a rail by-law?

To the best of my knowledge smoking is banned on all stations, canopy or no canopy.

 

[broadgage]

To the best of my knowledge smoking is banned on all stations, canopy or no canopy.

Yes but that is a railway bylaw, and not the law of the land.
Anti smoking legislation would permit smoking on a roofed platform, provided that at least half of the wall area was open, as is often the case.
The UK rail industry have however decided to prohibit smoking at all stations their control, as they entitled to do.
Most heritage lines have decided to also prohibit smoking on platforms, but I understand that it would be lawful to permit smoking if they so wished.
Likewise on open air stations not under the control of the UK rail industry, smoking could be permitted if the owner of the facility wanted this.
AFAIK, Sellafield station is under the control of BNFL and I believe that they could permit smoking if they so wished.
Lympstone commando station used to be under MOD control and I believe that smoking was then permitted, but it is now under network rail and subject to the same rules as other stations.

 

[Steddenm]

Yes but that is a railway bylaw, and not the law of the land.
Anti smoking legislation would permit smoking on a roofed platform, provided that at least half of the wall area was open, as is often the case.
The UK rail industry have however decided to prohibit smoking at all stations their control, as they entitled to do.
Most heritage lines have decided to also prohibit smoking on platforms, but I understand that it would be lawful to permit smoking if they so wished.
Likewise on open air stations not under the control of the UK rail industry, smoking could be permitted if the owner of the facility wanted this.
AFAIK, Sellafield station is under the control of BNFL and I believe that they could permit smoking if they so wished.
Lympstone commando station used to be under MOD control and I believe that smoking was then permitted, but it is now under network rail and subject to the same rules as other stations.

As I understand the only station in the country where smoking is still permitted in Fishguard Harbour as the station and the piece of track between Fishguard Level Crossing and the Station is owned by Stena Line Ports Ltd, and not Network Rail.

In fact, the staff seem to push smoking on the station as if you do go out of the station to the car park to smoke, they do come over and tell you you can smoke on the platforms if you so wish.

Stena Line Ports Ltd have however failed to provide any ashtrays on the platforms whatsoever.

Furthermore, Rosslare Harbour Station (and the Harbour itself) are owned by Iárnrod Éireann but do allow smoking on the station platform (it's fully open air). Most IÉ stations allow smoking on the platforms as long as it's not covered. Dublin Pearse and Tara Street are good examples of this, as there are covered sections with huge no smoking signs, yet when you come out from under the trainshed there are smoking areas with ashtrays. IÉ are very good at putting ashtrays on the platforms.

 

[Mojo]

As I understand the only station in the country where smoking is still permitted in Fishguard Harbour as the station and the piece of track between Fishguard Level Crossing and the Station is owned by Stena Line Ports Ltd, and not Network Rail.

And also the non-underground stations of the Merseyrail network allow customers to smoke, except in areas where it would be prohibited by the nationwide smoking ban such as waiting shelters or booking offices.

 

[Taunton]

I know London Underground went through a separate progression but all is connected.

The Underground long had about 1 in 4 cars stickered as non smoking, then sometime in the early 1970s moved on to 2 in 4. Generally on a 4-car set it was the trailers that were no-smo and the motor units that were smoking. I think it was only then that I started to make the definite decision to take the no-smo cars.

By the 1980s the proportion had moved on to 3 in 4. This was difficult on the C69 units on the Circle etc, 6 cars formed of 3 x 2-car, where although it was determined that one in three would be smoking (trailer cars 2 and 5), the middle twin set needed both No Smoking. The Underground went to all the trouble of fitting plastic guides inside the double glazing of the trailers which could hold No Smoking notices if formed as the middle set, but not when they were at the ends.

Later on, all trains were made No Smoking. 1987 I believe. It then became common for smokers to light up as they exited the trains and got on the escalator. And then the 1987 Kings Cross fire (cigarette stuck in escalator treads set light to the machinery underneath, and ultimately the whole station), 31 fatalities, and the very next day (I believe) smoking was absolutely banned anywhere on the Underground. Anywhere.

 

[edwin_m]

There was also the 1984 Oxford Circus fire, probably started by a cigarette end gettting into into a material store at platform level.

If you believe a Wikipedia entry that is "citation needed", then...

Whilst smoking had been banned on London Underground trains since July 1984; at the time of the Oxford Circus fire it was still allowed in stations. In respose to the fire, a complete ban on smoking in all sub-surface stations was introduced in February 1985. Nonetheless a similar incident occurred on 18 November 1987 at King's Cross St. Pancras tube station when it was concluded as probable that a passenger had dropped a lit match onto an escalator. The resulting fire killed 31 people. After the King's Cross fire, staff training was increased and the smoking ban was enforced much more strictly with fines being introduced for offenders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Circus_fire

The below is probably a better source but I don't have time to check it now:

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1187

 

[D6975]

To the best of my knowledge smoking is banned on all stations, canopy or no canopy.

Not in Scotland.
Different laws up there, you know, including smoking.

Up there it's only the 'enclosed spaces' bit that applies, smoking out in the open area of a platform is permitted.

 

[Butts]

Not in Scotland.
Different laws up there, you know, including smoking.

Up there it's only the 'enclosed spaces' bit that applies, smoking out in the open area of a platform is permitted.

That was the case until Abellio took over the franchise from First the other year. First permitted smoking on open parts of Platforms which Abellio banned. Network Rail stations in Scotland always had the same restrictions as in England and Wales.