Smoking at Railway Stations... Illegal?

[diffident]

Going from the quote below, I'm interested in a discussion about the legalities of smoking at railway stations...

Smoking is only illegal “ on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed”. Vaping is not illegal.

If it's only illegal where there is a sign saying so, and say on an outdoor platform, at a remote station, would walking to the end whilst waiting for a train and having a quick smoke plausibly be legal?

 

[D6975]

I thought that smoking on platforms is illegal in England and Wales.

 

[JamieL]

The byelaw states "No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed."

Even where no such sign is displayed though, it is also illegal under different laws to smoke on a train itself or within a substantially enclosed structure (defined as having a roof and walls that encompass over half the enclosing area.

 

[dk1]

As a member of railway staff as long as they are out in the open I have never challenged them.

 

[Ashley Hill]

As a member of railway staff as long as they are out in the open I have never challenged them.

Indeed,better to smoke at the end of a platform than on your train.

 

[dk1]

Indeed,better to smoke at the end of a platform than on your train.

Exactly. Some people just never know when to turn a blind eye.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I thought that smoking on platforms is illegal in England and Wales.

Under which law is that? Its only a byelaw offence.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Indeed,better to smoke at the end of a platform than on your train.

Some people are desperate for a smoke - I was on a TGV a few days ago, and a passenger pulled the emergency handle on leaving a station because her husband had nipped off for a quick vape and not been quick enough when the doors closed.

 

[Snow1964]

Under which law is that? It's only a byelaw offence.

It depends on if the station is staffed. This is because the law is on workplaces, and public places. The English law is Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulations 2006. (there are similar devolved laws in Scotland Wales)

The complication is that the law is about substantially enclosed areas. It was more recently modified to include areas outside but close to hospital areas.

Since October 2015 it has been illegal to smoke in a car where there are persons under 18 present (Children and Families Act 2014), so cars in station car parks if people are waiting are covered under the law too.

 

[Bensonby]

Whilst it isn’t illegal to smoke in an open air platform where there is no sign nearby prohibiting it under the bye laws. The railway company is entitled to ban it themselves (as is the case for any private property), but to breach that ban would be a civil, rather than criminal, matter.

 

[Western 52]

Many stations have automated announcements saying not to smoke until you have left the station premises, so the intention seems to be that smoking on trains and stations is not permitted.

 

[dk1]

Many stations have automated announcements saying not to smoke until you have left the station premises, so the intention seems to be that smoking on trains and stations is not permitted.

Officially yes that’s the case but common sense has to come into it.

 

[weastebusdepot]

Smoking is still permitted on the platforms at non-underground Merseyrail stations as far as I'm aware.

 

[172007]

Social convention suggest that smoking is no different to the aroma of a person who hasn't washed or bathed in weeks.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Social convention suggest that smoking is no different to the aroma of a person who hasn't washed or bathed in weeks.

Wasn't aware 2nd hand BO was a genuine health issue.....

 

[JamieL]

Wasn't aware 2nd hand BO was a genuine health issue.....

Quite. I am surprised the conversation seems to slewing towards toleration of an activity hazardous to health.

 

[jamesst]

Smoking is still permitted on the platforms at non-underground Merseyrail stations as far as I'm aware.

It isn't

 

[73001]

It isn't

I didn't think it was either... I'm sure the announcement says everywhere although it used to say '...underground stations' some time ago.

 

[TheSel]

I didn't think it was either... I'm sure the announcement says everywhere although it used to say '...underground stations' some time ago.

... although the wording of the Merseyrail Byelaws is somewhat less specific:

3 Smoking

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

(For link, see https://www.merseyrail.org/media/5iwdk5oa/merseyrail-byelaws-accessible.pdf)

How "near" is "near"?

 

[richard1976]

I thought that smoking on platforms is illegal in England and Wales.

Wasn't Fishguard Harbour station exempt from this. Something to do with the platform being owned by Stena Line and not network rail.

 

[londonmidland]

Vaping has become the new 'norm' on platforms and at stations I've noticed. Especially with the younger generation. It seems to be more tolerated and given more of a blind eye compared to conventional cigarettes.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Wasn't Fishguard Harbour station exempt from this. Something to do with the platform being owned by Stena Line and not network rail.

Yes. Allegedly because smokers gathered on the road and rushed getting knocked down.

 

[chris_in_salop]

Vaping has become the new 'norm' on platforms and at stations I've noticed. Especially with the younger generation. It seems to be more tolerated and given more of a blind eye compared to conventional cigarettes.

Yes, quite a bit of furtive vaping going on at Liverpool Central yesterday, on crowded underground platforms at 7pm on a Saturday.

 

[Facing Back]

Yes, quite a bit of furtive vaping going on at Liverpool Central yesterday, on crowded underground platforms at 7pm on a Saturday.

On a Manchester Newcastle TPE a week or so ago the chap opposite was vaping for much of the journey. The host was in our carriage and passed through a number of times for tickets and snacks and didnt comment. He can't have failed to notice so I just kind of assumed that it was allowed. The smell wasnt offensive and the a/c kept the carriage cool and fresh so I wasn't bothered - just a bit surprised.

 

[JJmoogle]

If it's a remote or unstaffed station absolutely nothing happens, although it might not technically be legal, the only place I've been told off was Shrewsbury waiting for a connection where we got told to put it out by station staff and then a few minutes later there was a PA reminder about the legalities of smoking, fair enough.
Been a while since I've been cursed with an addiction to fags though so it's not something I'm up to date with.

Vaping seems to be something else all together, it's so hard to notice sometimes especially if it's cold out anyway, whenever I use New Street I regularly see gangs of people standing nearish the ends of the platforms raising their hands to their mouths in a rhythmic fashion.

 

[Krokodil]

Social convention suggest that smoking is no different to the aroma of a person who hasn't washed or bathed in weeks.

If only we could ban them from travelling

 

[1D54]

I'm one of the rare people that smoke and vape, I'd never dream of lighting up on a platform but there again my vaper is so discreet it does the job everywhere anyway.

 

[sprunt]

... although the wording of the Merseyrail Byelaws is somewhat less specific:

3 Smoking

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

(For link, see https://www.merseyrail.org/media/5iwdk5oa/merseyrail-byelaws-accessible.pdf)

How "near" is "near"?

That's obviously for a magistrate or jury to decide. Vaguely written laws like this are terrible.

 

[AverageJoe]

Exactly. Some people just never know when to turn a blind eye.

May I ask if you are saying that because you smoke in places you shouldn’t or just in the interest of avoiding conflict?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2023 ==

Vaping has become the new 'norm' on platforms and at stations I've noticed. Especially with the younger generation. It seems to be more tolerated and given more of a blind eye compared to conventional cigarettes.

I think it’s because we live in a generation of law breakers who only think about themselves and aren’t overly interested in how their actions effect others.

For me vaping is as irritating as smoking but I tend to turn a blind eye because people are quick to become aggressive nowadays.

 

[dk1]

May I ask if you are saying that because you smoke in places you shouldn’t or just in the interest of avoiding conflict?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2023 ==

I don’t smoke lol