Smokers at Doncaster Station

[Harlesden]

The first thing I noticed about Doncaster Station when using it for the first time was smokers not being permitted to stand immediately in front of the station building.
Is this a common restriction nationwide? Something unique to Yorkshire stations? Or simply implemented at Doncaster due to the convenient pedestrian "islands" in front of this particular station where smokers can stand.

 

[Qwerty133]

The first thing I noticed about Doncaster Station when using it for the first time was smokers not being permitted to stand immediately in front of the station building.
Is this a common restriction nationwide? Something unique to Yorkshire stations? Or simply implemented at Doncaster due to the convenient pedestrian "islands" in front of this particular station where smokers can stand.

Wish more places would do this, there's no point banning smoking in the station if you have to walk past it on exit.

 

[High Dyke]

I was at Grantham earlier - an announcement was made about smoking not permitted on the station and advising any smokers to exit the station and cross over the forecourt where smoking bins are provided. It reminded them they they couldn't stand under the forecourt canopy. This backed up by large 'no smoking' signs on the wall and floor of the forcourt...not that some people take any notice.

 

[Crossover]

There are signs at Dewsbury advising smoking under the canopy immediately outside the doorway off the car parks is not allowed...of course, no-one takes any notice of that one either

 

[Butts]

Instead of smokers being dispersed along the length of open air platforms , they are all congregated around the entrance.

Hmmm....am I missing something

 

[Trog]

Instead of smokers being dispersed along the length of open air platforms , they are all congregated around the entrance.

Hmmm....am I missing something

Yes dog ends all over the platforms.

 

[Butts]

Yes dog ends all over the platforms.

No, on the tracks

 

[Zoidberg]

Instead of smokers being dispersed along the length of open air platforms , they are all congregated around the entrance.

Hmmm....am I missing something

You'll be missing the same aspect as I am.

I don't smoke. I detest the smell of smoke. But I cannot see the point of preventing people smoking in fresh air.

But, on a station premises, I imagine that it could be difficult to say what is a "fresh air" area.
- Out in the open platform? Yes;
- Under an canopy otherwise open to the elements? Probably;
- Under a canopy enclosed on three sides? Probably not;
- ... and so on.

 

[Butts]

You'll be missing the same aspect as I am.

I don't smoke. I detest the smell of smoke. But I cannot see the point of preventing people smoking in fresh air.

But, on a station premises, I imagine that it could be difficult to say what is a "fresh air" area.
- Out in the open platform? Yes;
- Under an canopy otherwise open to the elements? Probably;
- Under a canopy enclosed on three sides? Probably not;
- ... and so on.

Most non Network Rail Stations in Scotland you can smoke where above you is only sky on the platforms

 

[Zoidberg]

Most non Network Rail Stations in Scotland you can smoke where above you is only sky on the platforms

You gotta love the common sense applied in Alba - apart from the booze buying restrictions

 

[Butts]

You gotta love the common sense applied in Alba - apart from the booze buying restrictions

Have you seen the problems we have with "buckfast"

We do have unrestricted Sunday Trading Laws as well - none of your 10-5 nonsense

 

[Donny Dave]

We do have unrestricted Sunday Trading Laws as well - none of your 10-5 nonsense

There's none of the 10-5 nonsense here in England .... It's 10-4 instead :roll:

 

[Zoidberg]

Have you seen the problems we have with "buckfast"

We do have unrestricted Sunday Trading Laws as well - none of your 10-5 nonsense

He he, Buckfast, ask Rab C about that!

Ah ken well the benefits of being north of the border. And down here it's 6 hours trading on a sunday, usually taken between 10 and 4. But sod not being able to buy booze up in civilisation when you want to.

Ooops, off topic, just a wee bit.

 

[Butts]

He he, Buckfast, ask Rab C about that!

Ah ken well the benefits of being north of the border. And down here it's 6 hours trading on a sunday, usually taken between 10 and 4. But sod not being able to buy booze up in civilisation when you want to.

Ooops, off topic, just a wee bit.

At least you can buy some fags (to smoke in the station entrance ) once you have figured out they are behind the "bomb proof flaps" at the supermarket fag kiosk

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As there seems to be some confusion here, can someone explain the difference of how bus stations can be deemed non-smoking within the boundaries of their premises both inside of the shelters and in the open areas and of the no-smoking requirements of railway stations with closed and open areas, when they both are there to ensure arrivals and egress of the travelling public.

Is there any legal constraint that differs in these two types of transportation establishment or do railway by-laws supercede any law that may be enacted. Has any court case been made to test out this in recent years ?

 

[Zoidberg]

As there seems to be some confusion here, ...

I'm not sure what is the confusion. Those who are allowed to set the rules set them differently. In Scotland, sensibly, elsewhere ... ?

Or, have I misunderstood?

 

[bnm]

Railways byelaws state that it is an offence to smoke in the vicinity of a 'No Smoking' sign.

Health Act 2006 states that is an offence to smoke in an enclosed or substantially enclosed building to which the public have access.

Now, if you are on a platform and are neither, a) in the vicinity of a 'No Smoking' sign, or b) in an enclosed or substantially enclosed building, do you commit an offence in lighting up?

 

[AlexS]

If there is a sign on the platform, you will probably be considered to be within the vicinity of it. Certainly there's one every few metres on my station, they all advise you that smoking is not permitted anywhere on the station, as do the regular announcements that give notice.

That said, I can't speak for other locations where the signage may not be as good and as is the case with most things byelaw-wise, signage is the key.

I wouldn't want to be the one to try it out personally though!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not sure what is the confusion. Those who are allowed to set the rules set them differently. In Scotland, sensibly, elsewhere ... ?....Or, have I misunderstood?

It is just that the no-smoking matter has featured on many different threads over the last two years on RailUK forums and I honestly think you cannot say anything else but there has been an "interesting" interpretation of the matter in the minds of many of our forum members in that time. Unanimity of thought on the matter does not seem to be a dominant feature.

 

[transmanche]

Is there any legal constraint that differs in these two types of transportation establishment or do railway by-laws supercede any law that may be enacted.

The railway by-laws do not (and cannot) supercede any statute law.

The law in England prohibits smoking in enclosed workplaces. By-laws can then be used to extend this to cover the non-enclosed parts of railway stations or bus stations - much as they did before the introduction of the statutory ban. The reasons for wanting to do this are many; prevention of litter is one - but most likely for consistency and the avoidance of confusion. It's easier to prohibit smoking throughout, then to only have it prohibited in certain parts - as people will naturally keep 'testing the boundaries'.

 

[deltic1989]

UK Railway FAQ
20. No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar or cigarette in any lift or vehicle or elsewhere upon the railway, where smoking is expressly prohibited by the Board by a notice exhibited in a conspicuous position in such lift or vehicle or upon or near such other part of the railway or if requested by an authorised person not to do so in or upon any part of the railway where smoking or carrying a lighted pipe, cigar or cigarette may be dangerous.

This is the letter of the byelaw.
I have highlighted a point of interest here. Most of the laws of this land are very open to interpretation and this one seems to be too.
I interpret the word notice to mean some kind of sign particularly since a "Conspicuous position" is mentioned.
Does this mean then that if there are no signs, but an announcement saying that 'smoking is prohibited on any part of this station', that the announcement is invalid as it doesn't satisfy the byelaw as a conspicuous notice (well it wouldn't be for the deaf).
Or have I got it totally wrong here? It wouldn't be the first time I had got into trouble for misinterpreting the law, (but that burglar had it coming ).

 

[AlexS]

That is not the letter of the byelaw unfortunately. Google is not your friend as that's an old byelaw - it references the British Railways Board.

The current byelaw is as follows:

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The current byelaw is as follows:-
3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

Has any legal clarification ever been made that clarifies the phrase "or near" in that byelaw ?

 

[cjp]

That is not the letter of the byelaw unfortunately. Google is not your friend as that's an old byelaw - it references the British Railways Board.

The current byelaw is as follows:

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

However I refer you to this post http://railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1346288&postcount=12

 

[edwin_m]

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

That succeeds in catching the ones who might claim "I wasn't smoking it I was just carrying it". But any track workers asked to do a bit of welding near a station platform might be in for a surprise...