Smart Ticket Option by 2018?

[HH]

A bit like smart meters really. Allegedly no one is forcing you to have one but try switching provider without and you will find it difficult as the switch is being imposed by the Government.

I just switched supplier without a smart meter with no trouble.

Change always brings out the luddites.

 

[Haywain]

As well it should be. There's no reason why we should still be using paper tickets in ten to fifteen year's time.

There's no reason we should be using them in 5 years time. there are plenty of viable alternatives in use already around the world, and ultimately progress cannot be held back by a minority who believe they can refuse to change. I realise that this will be an unpopular view with some, but that's the way of things.

 

[najaB]

There's no reason we should be using them in 5 years time.

Oh, I agree completely. But this *is* the railway we're talking about.

 

[ChathillMan]

Smartcards are old hat these days. They are expensive to make, the back office systems are slow and you are limited to he amount of tickets types you can add on them (ITSO ones anyway')

A full roll out of m-tickets and NFC payments would be a step in the right direction, so long as the option for paper tickets remains.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[glbotu]

Smartcards are old hat these days. They are expensive to make, the back office systems are slow and you are limited to he amount of tickets types you can add on them (ITSO ones anyway')

A full roll out of m-tickets and NFC payments would be a step in the right direction, so long as the option for paper tickets remains.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

By NFC do you mean contactless cards or NFC payments via phone (eg: Apple Pay)? I'd suggest contactless cards would probably be the way forwards (it's similar tech anyway). I don't see the problem with paper tickets for Advances and International uses.

M-Tickets currently rely on QR codes, which are awkward and clunky (and have a terrible failure rate on the readers - often down to user incompetence, but still, that means they don't work and people get confused). I guess some sort of NFC "ticketing" might have technological advantages, but then you've got to switch on the NFC on your phone, which isn't great from a security standpoint (almost as secure as bluetooth).

Alternatively, you could definitely do smartcards better, you just need more bandwidth and more servers. The problem currently is that they work client-side, with lots of information on the card itself. A system where the card just holds a single globally unique identifier could have whatever back-end system it wants, with a web UI for people who are tech-savvy, and the ability for ticket-office staff to make changes otherwise.

Say, "normal operation", would have it operate on a direct-debit system to a bank account (like contactless cards), allowing unrestricted travel around whatever city-region you're in right now, then, you could go on-line and buy other tickets (for IC services), or set it to a "top-up" system (so you can control the money), or allow completely unrestricted travel (if you have the money), or even set it to "first-class" mode, add railcards etc etc etc.

You can do a lot, and get past people's irrational fears of using their cards to pay for stuff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Alternatively, you could definitely do smartcards better, you just need more bandwidth and more servers. The problem currently is that they work client-side, with lots of information on the card itself. A system where the card just holds a single globally unique identifier could have whatever back-end system it wants, with a web UI for people who are tech-savvy, and the ability for ticket-office staff to make changes otherwise.

That's not smartcards - by definition a smartcard stores things on the card. That's true e-ticketing, of which I am a huge supporter. The actual ticket lives in a database, and you can use any reference to it you like - an orange and white bit of card, an RFID card (not a smartcard, just something that blindly broadcasts its ID when interrogated), a mobile phone screen with a barcode, a print at home piece of A4, a NFC phone, whatever. It moves with technology. Lose the reference? Just get another one - perhaps a reprint for a quid at a TVM or something. Delay Repay? All you need is the reference in some form.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What's the current typical time that someone has to wait between when they buy a ticket for their smartcard and when it becomes available for use on that smartcard?

 

[ChathillMan]

What's the current typical time that someone has to wait between when they buy a ticket for their smartcard and when it becomes available for use on that smartcard?

From 2 hours up to 48 hours depending on the time of day you buy it. It depends on how the back office "HOPS" system is set up to "action" the action list.

 

[glbotu]

That's not smartcards - by definition a smartcard stores things on the card. That's true e-ticketing, of which I am a huge supporter. The actual ticket lives in a database, and you can use any reference to it you like - an orange and white bit of card, an RFID card (not a smartcard, just something that blindly broadcasts its ID when interrogated), a mobile phone screen with a barcode, a print at home piece of A4, a NFC phone, whatever. It moves with technology. Lose the reference? Just get another one - perhaps a reprint for a quid at a TVM or something. Delay Repay? All you need is the reference in some form.

Didn't realise there was a specific definition, I just assumed "smartcard" was a catch-all term for a ticket that contained an RFID chip.

 

[ChathillMan]

By NFC do you mean contactless cards or NFC payments via phone (eg: Apple Pay)? I'd suggest contactless cards would probably be the way forwards (it's similar tech anyway). I don't see the problem with paper tickets for Advances and International uses.

M-Tickets currently rely on QR codes, which are awkward and clunky (and have a terrible failure rate on the readers - often down to user incompetence, but still, that means they don't work and people get confused). I guess some sort of NFC "ticketing" might have technological advantages, but then you've got to switch on the NFC on your phone, which isn't great from a security standpoint (almost as secure as bluetooth).

Alternatively, you could definitely do smartcards better, you just need more bandwidth and more servers. The problem currently is that they work client-side, with lots of information on the card itself. A system where the card just holds a single globally unique identifier could have whatever back-end system it wants, with a web UI for people who are tech-savvy, and the ability for ticket-office staff to make changes otherwise.

Say, "normal operation", would have it operate on a direct-debit system to a bank account (like contactless cards), allowing unrestricted travel around whatever city-region you're in right now, then, you could go on-line and buy other tickets (for IC services), or set it to a "top-up" system (so you can control the money), or allow completely unrestricted travel (if you have the money), or even set it to "first-class" mode, add railcards etc etc etc.

You can do a lot, and get past people's irrational fears of using their cards to pay for stuff.

I agree RE Contactless. I am finding myself using more and more and it's starting to find its way on to Buses outside London.

Re M-tickets - I was thinking more like the ones you get from bus operators that don't have QR Codes (to show conductor, or stations without barriers). I concede you would need QR built in to activate some barriers though

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't realise there was a specific definition, I just assumed "smartcard" was a catch-all term for a ticket that contained an RFID chip.

I'd clearly separate smartcards (which tend to be mini computers running some form of Java able to be interrogated by communications protocols, and with some measure of security) from RFID (which simply blindly broadcast a numeric ID without security when interrogated). RFID = Radio Frequency Identification.

 

[najaB]

I'd clearly separate smartcards (which tend to be mini computers running some form of Java...

Doesn't have to be Java, though most commonly it is.