Slip Coach Operations

[wellhouse]

I understand how Slip Coaches were operated on Down services, being released from the rear of a moving train as it approached each destination station.

I have been unable to discover how they worked on Up services. Were they shunted to the end of the line later in the evening to form a through stopping service the following morning, or was there a very slow stopping service with the slip coaches picked up one by one (and then presumably needing further shunting during the day to rearrange the coaches in the right order?)

 

[Gloster]

And there you have one of the problems with slip coaches: you can’t just catapult them on to the back of a passing express. They had to be worked back, often as through coaches, to their starting point, although there were some cases where the coach formed a return through working: there were a number that were dropped off Up workings at Reading, for example. There was, until the final years, also the problem that through coaches did not have gangways, so if formed in an express the passengers couldn’t get to the Restaurant Car. This all added to the difficulties of using the coaches and made them, even in an era of low stock utilisation, a poor bargain.

 

[Dr Hoo]

May I commend A History of Slipping and Slip Carriages by C E J Fryer, Oakwood Press 1997 to the OP's attention? Seems quite easy to obtain, previously loved, from around £7.

Yes, there was a lot of shunting involved but back in the day it was common to attach (and detach) vehicles to trains in mid-run all over the place. Most commonly horse boxes and carriage trucks but 'returning' slip coaches were often handled in the same way. There was even a regular case of a slip being detached at Kettering southbound, it then being attached to the next southbound train and detached again at Wellingborough!

Despite many rumours and claims of vestibuled slip coaches being used to provide restaurant car access there is apparently no clear evidence of them being in regular use. There was a famous demonstration of one at Coventry, reported in the Railway Magazine and the Midland Railway did do a very few conversions but there were evidently difficulties in writing operating instructions that could be approved by the Board of Trade. This was all in the immediate run-up to the First World War, during which slipping was suspended anyway, so it was never a material feature. A well-known picture of some Royal Mail carriages being slipped from a postal train on the Bristol Avoiding Line (with characteristic offset gangways at the rear of the slip portion and the rear of the disappearing parent train) nevertheless involved a single-ended leading slip vehicle, specially converted for the task.

Hope this helps.

 

[Rescars]

Gloster's points are all quite correct. A poor bargain they may have been, but by the look of it, really rather good fun!

Just to be picky, there were some slip workings on up trains too. Back in the broad gauge era, the GWR slipped some coaches from Paddington-bound expresses to provide through coaches to Victoria. The LBSC also slipped from up London Bridge expresses at East Croydon to provide a service to Victoria. There were quite a lot of companies operating slip coach services pre WW1. Others will be able to advise if those on the broadly east-west L&Y were either up or down trains.

 

[Taunton]

The Cornish Riviera had a Slip coach for Westbury (plus often a second coach behind), which after slipping there was attached to an ongoing Weymouth train to provide a through service. In the evening it was taken, in reverse, from Weymouth back to Bristol where, now facing the right way, it was attached next day to a Paddington express and slipped at Reading. It was then taken on to London and out to Old Oak carriage yard. Being the wrong way round, it was turned on the turntable and attached to next day's Cornish Riviera. Two Slip coaches were thus needed for this circuit.

 

[Rescars]

In response to the OP, a slightly different approach was taken by the London and Blackwall which was rope worked when it first opened. Carriages were not coupled but were slipped in sequence at each intermediate station as the "train" was worked towards Blackwall. They were then picked up by the cable on the return working to Minories. This did of course mean that the only way of travelling between two intermediate stations was via Minories. This unusual method of working would have been totally impractical in more conventional settings of course, but it was a pretty cunning way to corral lots of slipped carriages.

 

[Western 52]

The guard of the slip coach must have needed a lot of skill in order to uncouple at the right moment, and then to stop the coach at the right location on the platform. Were there instances when this went wrong? I can imagine slips stopping before the platform or over running it! Did the uncoupling always work as intended?

 

[Taunton]

The guard of the slip coach must have needed a lot of skill in order to uncouple at the right moment, and then to stop the coach at the right location on the platform. Were there instances when this went wrong? I can imagine slips stopping before the platform or over running it! Did the uncoupling always work as intended?

The opposite, they were stopped absolutely spot on. As I wrote previously:

My grandfather told me he regularly used the Taunton slip coach, 10.30 from Paddington arrived at Taunton platform just about 1 pm, he would apparently walk in to the family lunch in progress some minutes later, with a place laid for him, having telegrammed ahead his arrival time. He had, of course, engaged the Slip Guard in conversation along the way. It was a point of honour for the latter to brake the coach to a stand with the slip compartment right alongside the stairway down to the station subway. Whenever in recent times on the Jubilee Line Extension, before automatic driving came along, the trains were stopped precisely on the spot at the platform edge doors, I was sometimes reminded of this similar stopping accuracy with much cruder equipment, long ago and far away.

 

[Rescars]

The guard of the slip coach must have needed a lot of skill in order to uncouple at the right moment, and then to stop the coach at the right location on the platform. Were there instances when this went wrong? I can imagine slips stopping before the platform or over running it! Did the uncoupling always work as intended?

AIUI, one of the trickiest locations was at Accrington, where the slip was detached from the train whilst it was being braked on a 1 in 40 gradient, but the vacuum had to be restored to give enough brake power for the slip portion. Serious skill required here!

 

[Falcon1200]

it was attached next day to a Paddington express and slipped at Reading.

Have to wonder what the benefit of slipping from an Up express at Reading was, given that the train had to slow anyway to pass through the platform 5 loop! Was the time saving to the main train really worth the extra shunting etc required?

 

[Taunton]

AIUI, one of the trickiest locations was at Accrington, where the slip was detached from the train whilst it was being braked on a 1 in 40 gradient, but the vacuum had to be restored to give enough brake power for the slip portion. Serious skill required here!

It was also an issue, particularly on a hill as here, that the loco at point of detachment would apply full steam to pull the main train away. This was done in case the automatic self-sealing of the vacuum pipe at the rear of the main section didn't work and the brakes went on the main train, risking a collision from the slip coach running into the back. Avoiding this was a key issue for the slip guard, although hopefully never needed.

 

[Gloster]

Have to wonder what the benefit of slipping from an Up express at Reading was, given that the train had to slow anyway to pass through the platform 5 loop! Was the time saving to the main train really worth the extra shunting etc required?

At Reading the Up Main platform was on a loop off the Up Main.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Have to wonder what the benefit of slipping from an Up express at Reading was, given that the train had to slow anyway to pass through the platform 5 loop! Was the time saving to the main train really worth the extra shunting etc required?

Something not often mentioned is that ‘slipping on the Up’ avoided the parent train being overrun with shorter distance passengers - Reading being a prime example. (Re-)attaching a slip coach to a later service could maintain later/overall capacity.

 

[AndrewE]

Have to wonder what the benefit of slipping from an Up express at Reading was, given that the train had to slow anyway to pass through the platform 5 loop! Was the time saving to the main train really worth the extra shunting etc required?

when this was last discussed we found out that the coach slipped at Reading was worked to give a through "up" service to Oxford.
I think virtually all stations had a pilot for retrieving slip coaches, putting them on the back of other trains or return workings or attaching and detaching other through coaches and things like horse-boxes and parcels vans.

 

[Andy873]

AIUI, one of the trickiest locations was at Accrington, where the slip was detached from the train whilst it was being braked on a 1 in 40 gradient, but the vacuum had to be restored to give enough brake power for the slip portion. Serious skill required here!

Probably very tricky, you'd be coming down the Baxenden bank into Accrington.

Trains from Manchester to places like Burnley, Nelson & Colne employed slip coaches so that the cotton mill owners / representatives could get home early evening that little bit quicker.

This route involved passengers for Accrington to be seated in the last two carriages, these were the slip coaches. On approach to Accrington, they were detached and hopefully came to a stop at the station as the rest of the train continued on with the mill owners etc.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The guard of the slip coach must have needed a lot of skill in order to uncouple at the right moment, and then to stop the coach at the right location on the platform. Were there instances when this went wrong? I can imagine slips stopping before the platform or over running it! Did the uncoupling always work as intended?

It was a highly skilled operation, but inevitably things didn't always go to plan and the station pilot would have to go and retrieve a slip coach which had run out of momentum

 

[edwin_m]

At Reading the Up Main platform was on a loop off the Up Main.

So would the non-stop train be routed through the loop, with attendant speed restriction? Or would the train be routed through and the junction signal replaced, points reversed and signal cleared for the loop, hopefully all before the slip guard had to slam on the brakes to stop at the signal?

I think virtually all stations had a pilot for retrieving slip coaches, putting them on the back of other trains or return workings or attaching and detaching other through coaches and things like horse-boxes and parcels vans.

They would have had to have one if coaches were slipped there, otherwise the slip coach would sit there blocking the main line until some other passing train could pick it up.

Slipping violates the principles that there should be only one train in section, and that each train should carry a tail lamp only on the last vehicle. I believe the rear of the coach in front of a slip coach had to have a special tail lamp arrangement, and there were various different ones if a train had multiple slip portions. The signalman at each box up to the last slipping station would have to confirm that that train, and that train only, had the correct lamp(s) for that part of its journey, before giving train out of section. Otherwise if one or more slipping portions separated when not intended, that part of the train would be lost in section with nobody aware of its presence. The alternative would be for the main guard to attach a normal tail lamp only when the main train passed the slipping station, but I don't know if that was ever done.

AIUI, one of the trickiest locations was at Accrington, where the slip was detached from the train whilst it was being braked on a 1 in 40 gradient, but the vacuum had to be restored to give enough brake power for the slip portion. Serious skill required here!

Didn't some slip coaches have separate reservoirs that could be charged with vacuum prior to slipping, and then used to release the brake afterwards if needed?

 

[AndrewE]

So would the non-stop train be routed through the loop, with attendant speed restriction? Or would the train be routed through and the junction signal replaced, points reversed and signal cleared for the loop, hopefully all before the slip guard had to slam on the brakes to stop at the signal?

I am sure the slipped coach would have come to a stand on the main line. Routing the express through a platform doesn't sound a good idea, and changing the points in front of a moving slip coach wouldn't have been allowed. Someone must have an old Sectional or General Appendix with detailed instructions...

They would have had to have one if coaches were slipped there, otherwise the slip coach would sit there blocking the main line until some other passing train could pick it up.

Not true. The video of "the last slip coach" shows that the slipped coach came to a stand on the main line then the already-detached loco of a local train waiting in the platform shot out behind the main train and backed down to collect the slip coach before returning to the platform to work its combined train forward.

Slipping violates the principles that there should be only one train in section, and that each train should carry a tail lamp only on the last vehicle. The rear of the coach in front of a slip coach had to have a special tail lamp arrangement, and there were various different ones if a train had multiple slip portions. The signalman at each box up to the last slipping station would have to confirm that that train, and that train only, had the correct lamp(s) for that part of its journey, before giving train out of section. Otherwise if one or more slipping portions separated when not intended, that part of the train would be lost in section with nobody aware of its presence.

 

[Gloster]

At Westbury, once the Avoiding Line was open, the main train was routed along the Avoiding Line and the Slip Coach came to a stand at Heywood Road Junction. A short way along the line to the station was an engine siding and a loco would come out of this, run back up the Down to the coach and then haul it in to the station.

I am fairly sure that the video of ‘the last slip coach’ was actually taken over several days, as there are several continuity oddities: the Paddington and onboard shots may have been taken on the day. I believe that on the last day the slip portion consisted of three coaches, including an LNER one. (Only the leading vehicle of a slip portion needs to be a slip coach design.)

 

[AndrewE]

That was mentionrd in the previous thread:

At Westbury, once the Avoiding Line was open, the main train was routed along the Avoiding Line and the Slip Coach came to a stand at Heywood Road Junction. A short way along the line to the station was an engine siding and a loco would come out of this, run back up the Down to the coach and then haul it in to the station.

I am fairly sure that the video of ‘the last slip coach’ was actually taken over several days, as there are several continuity oddities: the Paddington and onboard shots may have been taken on the day. I believe that on the last day the slip portion consisted of three coaches, including an LNER one. (Only the leading vehicle of a slip portion needs to be a slip coach design.

that was mentioned in the previous thread too... people should read https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fast-lines-through-stations.256557/ posts around #30

 

[Rescars]

Something not often mentioned is that ‘slipping on the Up’ avoided the parent train being overrun with shorter distance passengers - Reading being a prime example. (Re-)attaching a slip coach to a later service could maintain later/overall capacity.

Oh that this could still be done at East Croydon!

 

[Taunton]

So would the non-stop train be routed through the loop, with attendant speed restriction? Or would the train be routed through and the junction signal replaced, points reversed and signal cleared for the loop, hopefully all before the slip guard had to slam on the brakes to stop at the signal?

They would have had to have one if coaches were slipped there, otherwise the slip coach would sit there blocking the main line until some other passing train could pick it up.

Slipping violates the principles that there should be only one train in section, and that each train should carry a tail lamp only on the last vehicle. I believe the rear of the coach in front of a slip coach had to have a special tail lamp arrangement, and there were various different ones if a train had multiple slip portions. The signalman at each box up to the last slipping station would have to confirm that that train, and that train only, had the correct lamp(s) for that part of its journey, before giving train out of section. Otherwise if one or more slipping portions separated when not intended, that part of the train would be lost in section with nobody aware of its presence. The alternative would be for the main guard to attach a normal tail lamp only when the main train passed the slipping station, but I don't know if that was ever done.


Didn't some slip coaches have separate reservoirs that could be charged with vacuum prior to slipping, and then used to release the brake afterwards if needed?

You are correct; the Cornish Riviera, with Slips at Westbury, Taunton and Exeter, needed something like 15 lamps to be put in various combinations across the rear of its four sections, the three Slips and the main train. I bet the lampman at Paddington cursed it!

It did have the advantage that the King had a good worthwhile load on the easier sections of the journey, reduced by the time it got to the South Devon banks.

All the Slip coaches did have underframe vacuum reservoirs, to maintain the vacuum through multiple brake applications, particularly if there was a normal coach behind. At slipping, the guard gave an initial short, heavy application, the opposite of what the loco driver was doing as mentioned above, to ensure an initial distance from the main train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, there was a lot of shunting involved but back in the day it was common to attach (and detach) vehicles to trains in mid-run all over the place.

When were 'slip coach' operations last a thing? September 1960 at Bicester North?

Presume the need for express trains not calling at intermediate stops ceased to be a priority during the Great War, which might explain why the practice ceased for parts of the GB network at around this time and often then didn't subsequently ever resume.

 

[Merle Haggard]

One of the anecdotes about slip working might be amusing

The last ever slip coach working was on a train from Paddington. It was very popular to the extent that passengers crowded out the slip coach. An operator decided that it would be better if the standing passengers moved to the other coaches and he issued a Special Stop Order. He was talked out of it, though.

May I commend A History of Slipping and Slip Carriages by C E J Fryer, Oakwood Press 1997 to the OP's attention? Seems quite easy to obtain, previously loved, from around £7.

It is indeed a book worth buying at the going rate - I have one.
An observation I'll make about it, however, is that it is only a catalogue of the writer's research results from searching available published sources. This means that, if you're looking for a particular service, you may well find no record of it - the L.N.W.R., for instance, receives scant mention although there were some frequent services to towns off the direct main line, although more infrequent and obscure ones of other railways are included.
You can find details in contemporary W.T.T.s and Carriage Working books which are now on the web, often via specific railways' interest groups. Primary rather than secondary research, which is hard work.

 

[Rescars]

It was a highly skilled operation, but inevitably things didn't always go to plan and the station pilot would have to go and retrieve a slip coach which had run out of momentum

There were occasions when scheduled slips didn't happen because, for instance, the main train was being held at signals. Others will know more, but IIRC the GWR had special slipping signals to confirm to the train crew that the slip should take place.

 

[Taunton]

There were occasions when scheduled slips didn't happen because, for instance, the main train was being held at signals. Others will know more, but IIRC the GWR had special slipping signals to confirm to the train crew that the slip should take place.

They looked like little distant signals. Someone did quite a detailed post about them a while back.

The various reasons for not slipping included fog, as the Slip guard needed to keep a good lookout that the main train was drawing clear. Taunton on the Cornish Riviera also had an issue that if Creech watertroughs were frozen in the cold winters of past times the "Rivvy" would stop at the station to take water, which also prevented slipping, and the coach was detached while standing at the platform instead. The special quick-release slip coupling would often give trouble when the coupling was not in tension, as when the train was at speed, so the Slip guard would apply their handbrake when the train was coming to a stand to try and keep things tight.

 

[Falcon1200]

At Reading the Up Main platform was on a loop off the Up Main.

That is what I said, as the words 'platform 5 loop' indicated!

So would the non-stop train be routed through the loop, with attendant speed restriction? Or would the train be routed through and the junction signal replaced, points reversed and signal cleared for the loop, hopefully all before the slip guard had to slam on the brakes to stop at the signal?

Routed via the loop, too much danger of points being moved under the slip coach otherwise.

I am sure the slipped coach would have come to a stand on the main line.

At Bicester North yes, but at Reading I am sure I have read somewhere that the main train was routed through the platform 5 loop; The relative traffic levels at the two locations would influence the method of working, IMHO.

 

[edwin_m]

Not true. The video of "the last slip coach" shows that the slipped coach came to a stand on the main line then the already-detached loco of a local train waiting in the platform shot out behind the main train and backed down to collect the slip coach before returning to the platform to work its combined train forward.

That would be a bit embarrassing if the local was delayed so there was no loco to shunt the slip coach. Especially if the slip coach blocking the line also got in the way of the delayed local when it arrived.

 

[AndrewE]

That would be a bit embarrassing if the local was delayed so there was no loco to shunt the slip coach. Especially if the slip coach blocking the line also got in the way of the delayed local when it arrived.

maybe in that case they would put the express into the platform to detach. When it arrives the local runs past FL and sets back into the platform to couple up. Only problem is that the slip coach is at the wrong end of the train, but there is bound to be a pilot loco at the destination.
Shunting and re-forming trains is fun!

 

[Gloster]

That would be a bit embarrassing if the local was delayed so there was no loco to shunt the slip coach. Especially if the slip coach blocking the line also got in the way of the delayed local when it arrived.

A way would be found to sort it out: that is what signalmen do, with a little help from station masters or inspectors, Control, etc. At worst, the train would be stopped, by signals if need be, and the passengers asked to change, but this was really an in extremis solution: the carriage would remain with the rest of the train until it could be detached, but the ‘phones would be burning.

There is nothing to prevent the coach being brought to a stand before the point leading to a platform loop, on a through line parallel with it or after the platforms. Just so longer as it is clear to all in advance and you have the necessary loco, staff and signalling arrangements.