Sleepers (General)

[support-uk-rail]

I've posted threads about the Caledonian Sleeper and the Night Riviera.

Over the last few months the 'sleepers' have become my favourite trains, and, whilst discussions are happening in either other threads, I thought we could do with a thread for sleepers in general - comments, questions etc.

I'll get the ball rolling - most sources say 'the Night Riviera and Caledonian Sleeper are the last two remaining sleeper services in the uk' - What other routes had sleepers and when?

 

[87015]

I'll get the ball rolling - most sources say 'the Night Riviera and Caledonian Sleeper are the last two remaining sleeper services in the uk' - What other routes had sleepers and when?

Kings X-Edinburgh-Aberdeen, Plymouth/Bristol-Glasgow/Edinburgh, Euston - Holyhead, Barrow and Perth for starters used to have sleeper services.

There were LOADS of other overnights but not sure which actually had sleepers (Mk1 or Mk3 variety). Possibly Padd-Milford Haven and Fishguard, Euston-Stranraer?

 

[rail-britain]

During the 1980s, sleepers were moved from Kings Cross to Euston to allow for the ECML electrification, and were supposed to get moved back but never did :
Glasgow / Edinburgh - Bristol / Plymouth (Glasgow went to Plymouth, Edinburgh went to Bristol, with Edinburgh passengers changing before or after Carstairs if required)
Glasgow - Euston
Edinburgh - Euston
Aberdeen - Euston (sleepers only)
Inverness - Euston (sleepers only)
Aberdeen / Inverness - Euston

In 1990 the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers were merged into just two services
The Glasgow - Plymouth was also compressed into one service, via Edinburgh
With sprinterisation the single sleeper on the Glasgow - Aberdeen and Edinburgh - Inverness were also withdrawn

 

[Coradia]

Never done a sleeper before, one of not many services now with loco hauled still going strong. On that subject, might we see modernised versions of sleepers in the long term future? A Voyager sleeper (kinda scary I can't really picture that but it might happen) or something like that.

 

[rail-britain]

It is very unlikely that the sleepers will be replaced, which could see them reduced further around about 2015
There is already some doubt about the Glasgow sleeper for when VT introduce their next timetable as the first service from Glasgow arrives just an hour behind the sleeper and the last evening from Euston arrives just before midnight, almost wiping out the need for sleeper travel!
Added together with cheap airlines, also operating early morning / late evening, demand is expected fall by between 15 and 40% by 2015

When I worked on sleepers the passenger demands were really erratic, and still seems to be like that
Fridays and Sundays were usually at least 80% booked, quite often at 100%
However, Monday to Thursday you could quite often end up with more staff than passengers!
Saturday night sleepers turned into a joke, between their often laughable poor time keeping and again poor loadings
Also, the Euston - Aberdeen was often the first train northbound from Edinburgh to Aberdeen, and if there had been heavy snow overnight this often lead to problems and poor time keeping, once arriving into Aberdeen at 17:30 (stranded at Montrose for 6 hours)
I went home, changed clothes, and back to train; for a sleep (quite ironic really!)

 

[support-uk-rail]

m8internet, what sleeper did you work on, what did you do and when??

Thanks

 

[jopsuk]

How many of the routes ran with Motorail? I can just about remember Stirling and Edinburgh Waverly having working terminals- were they mainly day services, or like the final one (Paddington-Penzance) attached to the sleepers?

 

[1D53]

there were also a large amount of Friday night holiday makers with 47 traction and no beds, one such example was 2050 Edinburgh to Plymouth, was 2330ish Leeds and 0630ish Dawlish from what I recall, used to sit an hour at Bristol which made it perfect for mailtrainspotting

 

[mrcheek]

on a related note, are there any parts of the rail network that run overnight passenger services? I seem to recall Virgin have a service departing Holyhead at something like 0230, and certain TPE routes seem to run all night. anybody know of any others?

 

[bluenoxid]

Gat Ex I think.

 

[Darandio]

Obviously the TPE and Gatex are airport related but I was wondering...
Are these services specifically related to certain incoming flights?

 

[rail-britain]

m8internet, what sleeper did you work on, what did you do and when??

I worked in Aberdeen station in 1991 / 1992
I then joined Stagecoach RAIL on the Aberdeen sleeper in 1992 / 1993
I then moved over to InterCity Onboard Services, on both the Aberdeen and Inverness sleepers
From there I had a few months with InterCity East Coast between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, during 1994
I then had a short spell on the CATS team with InterCity East Coast, based at Edinburgh
I then got offered redundancy (they were looking for people aged 30 and under), so took it

That was probably the best time to work on the sleepers; pairs of Class 37s (although some northbound ones had just one 37), then the return of the Class 47/6s

 

[support-uk-rail]

m8internet, 47's and 37's - definately the best time!

 

[williamn]

Even with the new services on the West Coast you're going to have to get up at the crack of dawn to get the first train and then spend 4+ hours on the train, whereas on the sleeper you can use the time productively and sleep and get to London feeling awake rather than knackered!

I guess the sleepers will need to be replaced in the next 10-15 years though, and its hard to see how that will happen.

What were Mk1 sleepers like inside?

 

[Krispo]

Has anyone got any pictures of the old Sleepers? Interior-wise?

And any pics of the lounge coach.

 

[jopsuk]

What was the deal with Stagecoach Rail? How did it operate? There's very little it seems about it on the internet.

 

[Ascot]

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/leopold/mark/motorail/timetables.htm

That's got aload of the Motorail sleeper ones from 72.

 

[rail-britain]

What was the deal with Stagecoach Rail? How did it operate? There's very little it seems about it on the internet.

I have left this page available, which has a full history :
http://www.railbritain.com/fleet/stagecoachrail.htm
Any further questions, just ask

 

[Ascot]

I have left this page available, which has a full history :
http://www.railbritain.com/fleet/stagecoachrail.htm
Any further questions, just ask

Was you thinking of doing Wi-Fi demo's on them?

 

[rail-britain]

When I was Stagecoach Rail we were lucky enough to have a mobile phone on the train!

 

[Ascot]

When I was Stagecoach Rail we were lucky enough to have a mobile phone on the train!

And now look at you.

 

[jopsuk]

I have left this page available, which has a full history :
http://www.railbritain.com/fleet/stagecoachrail.htm
Any further questions, just ask

Cheers! All the search results I got tended to be for SWT/EMT/Virgin.

Sounds a very odd arrangement, almost a proto-open access, at least concept- filling a perceived gap in direct provision. The "parasitic" nature must be unique however.

I do have hazy memories of seeing the carriages at Aberdeen.

 

[Coradia]

It is very unlikely that the sleepers will be replaced, which could see them reduced further around about 2015
There is already some doubt about the Glasgow sleeper for when VT introduce their next timetable as the first service from Glasgow arrives just an hour behind the sleeper and the last evening from Euston arrives just before midnight, almost wiping out the need for sleeper travel!
Added together with cheap airlines, also operating early morning / late evening, demand is expected fall by between 15 and 40% by 2015

Yeah that new look VT timetable is really going to upset a lot of passengers especially the Midlands. More or less becomes a non stop from the North to Euston service on most diagrams. I know there is much demand for early trains but 04:25, will people really go so early for this one from Glasgow, will just have to see I guess. Though those North of Glasgow will still no doubt want the sleeper service to London.

 

[gordonthemoron]

There used to be a Newcastle-KX sleeper that ran via Sunderland & Hartlepool. Used MkI stock, that and some other routes were scrapped when Mk3s took over

 

[Crompton Karl]

Of course you used to have the Night Ferry (Sleeper) from Victoria to Brussels/Paris upto (i think 1980) which had Wagon lits from Europe using the train ferry. The only way i can see sleepers being replaced in the UK is if they tag on an order for Sleepers onto a bigger european order for night stock. Not unfeasable especially as coaching stock might fit the gauge (if the route has been enhanced for larger containers), what the biggest shame of it all is they had all that lovely sleeper stock from the nightstar project and sold it to the Canadians instead of upgrading the current UK sleeper services first.

Does anyone know if there is any remaining Nightstar stock in the UK except the MK3 generator cars.

Karl