Sleeper - Time vacating train ?

[paul1609]

Disagree. I use the sleeper to Glasgow and occasionally others several times a year for business travel. Leave home about 10pm and arrive in Glasgow with time for a shower and breakfast, and often a local train out of the city, before meetings at 9am. Either catch a day train back in the afternoon or the sleeper home. Alternative of air would mean leaving home at 4am, driving to airport, hiring car at Glasgow, with all the hassle that entails. No comparison, sleeper wins for me every time.

The inability to hire cars at main railways stations especially out of business hours is one of the main drawbacks for me.
If you are doing more than one meeting in Scotland its pretty much impossible to do that by public transport and you have security issues when you have a lot of papers etc with you.
I typically leave home at 5.30 having checked in on line and get a flight leaving at around 7.30
to either Glasgow or Edinburgh. Hire a car with AVIIS or Hertz if you are a regular user that takes no more than 10 mins.
First meeting at 10.30 giving time for breakfast enroute. Usually manage 3 to 4 jobs in the central belt before getting a flight home from the nearest airport at 7 to 9 ish. Generally takes about 1 hr 25 mins from touchdown to front door.
I like the fact that you are somehow still using the sleeper in this day and age but it can hardly be cost effective for your business

 

[stanley T]

I'd rather get a daytime train and a hotel at the other end, esp. now with the likes of Premier Inn & Travel Lodge which weren't about when I last used the sleeper.

Precisely, for a similar overall total price, and a better night's sleep. I am surprised that there is still a viable market for the Lowland sleeper.

The other surprise is that the sleeper that was cut in the early 90s was the South West - Scotland one, the longest journey and with poor and expensive air competition. Apparently it was the busiest route? Would seem viable if it slipped a coach or two in Manchester or Leeds en route.

It would also make sense to concentrate all the sleepers in one company (perhaps Scotrail/FGW JV) and have them all out of Euston, can access the GWML via Willesden. From the sound of it, FGW had better do the staff training.

 

[Essexman]

The inability to hire cars at main railways stations especially out of business hours is one of the main drawbacks for me.
If you are doing more than one meeting in Scotland its pretty much impossible to do that by public transport and you have security issues when you have a lot of papers etc with you.
I typically leave home at 5.30 having checked in on line and get a flight leaving at around 7.30
to either Glasgow or Edinburgh. Hire a car with AVIIS or Hertz if you are a regular user that takes no more than 10 mins.
First meeting at 10.30 giving time for breakfast enroute. Usually manage 3 to 4 jobs in the central belt before getting a flight home from the nearest airport at 7 to 9 ish. Generally takes about 1 hr 25 mins from touchdown to front door.
I like the fact that you are somehow still using the sleeper in this day and age but it can hardly be cost effective for your business

Fortunately it's my business so I don't have to justify the extra cost, although as I make more than 10 journeys a year a flexipass keeps the cost down.

Usually in Glasgow I have meetings near Milliken Park (walk from station) and East Kilbride (short taxi ride). One morning, one early afteroon, then I'm free to spend an evening doing what I like. Several times I've got a train to Pitlochry, spent a pleasant evening there and got the sleeper home. Beats getting up at 5am to fly!!

I agree with your point about car hire. Left luggage is also a problem - few and far between in UK but widespread in Europe. Fortunately Scotland seems to have comparitively more left luggage facilities than England, although when I used Aberdeen a couple of weeks ago they said it may close soon.

 

[ainsworth74]

It would also make sense to concentrate all the sleepers in one company (perhaps Scotrail/FGW JV) and have them all out of Euston, can access the GWML via Willesden.

Would there be room at Euston for another sleeper to take up a platform in the morning peak (especially bearing in mind the HS2 work which will be happening there in the future)?

 

[IanXC]

The other surprise is that the sleeper that was cut in the early 90s was the South West - Scotland one, the longest journey and with poor and expensive air competition. Apparently it was the busiest route? Would seem viable if it slipped a coach or two in Manchester or Leeds en route.

As I understand it it was the most profitable service under BR, but simply wasn't seen to fit in the CrossCountry franchise and so was withdrawn.

 

[Requeststop]

As I understand it it was the most profitable service under BR, but simply wasn't seen to fit in the CrossCountry franchise and so was withdrawn.

Such a shame. About 4 years ago travelling up from Truro to Paddington, I was reminising with a female attendant about the Bristol - Scotland run and how good it would be to have the service again but starting in Plymouth. Her reaction? How wonderful.

The connection to the sleeper from West Cornwall was a bit of a drag I recall, leaving St. Erth for Bristol somewhere between 5 and 6pm. The early morning arrival in Glasgow and Edinburgh was a boon for travelling northwards to Montrose to visit my godson. The thought of travelling on a crammed Cross Country from Cornwall to Scotland or return the same way fills me with dread or East Coasting it to London to get me to Paddington to get home is not my idea of comfortable travel.

 

[Yew]

I wonder if this new sleeper franchise could see a section doing the west country to scotland route, maybe leave at 7:30pm, and join up with the lowland sleeper?

Unfortunately I doubt we will see any mothballed sleeper stock brought back from the dead, and certainly not any new stock unless we have some sort of LHCS order

 

[bkhtele]

Lives in a Landscape: The Longest commute in Britain, was broadcast yesterday, still available in Radio I-Player. Gives a view of the Highland Sleeper from regular users. Is worth a listen. More details in nr thread - thanks to those who highlighted it there.

 

[Zoe]

Such a shame. About 4 years ago travelling up from Truro to Paddington, I was reminising with a female attendant about the Bristol - Scotland run and how good it would be to have the service again but starting in Plymouth.

There was a Plymouth - Glasgow/Edinburgh service until May 1995.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-22/Writtens-3.html

Mr. Tyler: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what were the passenger loading figures for the Night Scot for stations between Plymouth and Glasgow inclusive, and for the Night West Countryman in the reverse direction, for each quarter in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 and to the latest available date. [25243]

Mr. Watts: In 1993 94, 32,000 passengers travelled on the sleeper service between Plymouth and Glasgow and Edinburgh. Figures are not available for each direction, intermediate stations, by quarter or for other years.

 

[IanXC]

There was a Plymouth - Glasgow/Edinburgh service until May 1995.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-22/Writtens-3.html

The answer gave a total passengers figure of 32,000, which divided by (6 days a week, 52 weeks, and up/down services) gives an average load of 51 passengers per service. That doesn't seem so impressive, does anyone know how that compares to the current sleepers?

 

[stuart]

Personally I love the Highland sleeper. You have to be careful which nights you travel though! Get an Inverness-based crew (Sun/Tue/Thu south, Mon/Wed/Fri north) and they are exemplary in their courtesy and care. Other nights you get a London-based crew and would think they worked for a different company altogether.

As for writing to Scotrail customer service, it's a joke - their job specification seems to be simply to deflect complaints, never to actually deal with or learn from them.

 

[pastisthepast]

Personally I love the Highland sleeper. You have to be careful which nights you travel though! Get an Inverness-based crew (Sun/Tue/Thu south, Mon/Wed/Fri north) and they are exemplary in their courtesy and care. Other nights you get a London-based crew and would think they worked for a different company altogether.

As for writing to Scotrail customer service, it's a joke - their job specification seems to be simply to deflect complaints, never to actually deal with or learn from them.

Can i ask why you feel Inverness crew are better? Is it because they basically make up there own rules and london must follow company policy. I have travelled with both crews in standard class with scottish crew i have been told i will move you as i dont want you sharing, with london crew i have to take my allocated bunk. I have also been offered Hot choclate drinks in the morning and not with london. My most recent trip i took my dog travelled up with a scottish crew and was not charged a fee for the dog, on the return with london crew i was charged an £80 pet cleaning fee. When asked this is because they are following policy.

Perhaps you think they work for different companies because management are a lot stricter with London crew then scottish crews.

As a manager i know which crews i would have working for me and that is the crew that provide the best service following company policy and charging the correct supplements.

 

[Mainliner]

As a matter of interest, is there a cut-off departure time for 2/3 of the up Highland train to leave Edinburgh, in the event that one of the Aberdeen/Inverness/Fort William sections is badly delayed?

 

[ainsworth74]

Can i ask why you feel Inverness crew are better?

I think it's just a thing with London crews (I'm generalising of course). On East Coast it's noticeable that Scottish, Newcastle and Yorkshire crews are friendlier, happier and give better customer service than London based crews.

 

[stuart]

Can i ask why you feel Inverness crew are better?

I think you answered your own question in the rest of what you wrote! Providing "best service" and "following company policy" are rarely the same thing. Oh that they were.

Plus, whether following company policy or not, it doesn't hurt if you do it with a smile on your face.

 

[paul1609]

There was a Plymouth - Glasgow/Edinburgh service until May 1995.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-22/Writtens-3.html

I used it a couple of times when sent from Devonport to join ships in Rosyth that would have been in 1992-3.
I reckon probably 75% of its customers were either sailors or associated MOD employees. it was good for parties!
That business was lost overnight in 1994 when HMS Cochrane and the Rosyth Naval Base were closed during a round of defence cuts.

 

[Deerfold]

The other surprise is that the sleeper that was cut in the early 90s was the South West - Scotland one, the longest journey and with poor and expensive air competition. Apparently it was the busiest route? Would seem viable if it slipped a coach or two in Manchester or Leeds en route.

Not so much of a surprise - about the only thing that's kept the current sleepers going is that various MPs use them from time to time - and they were always far less likely to use that one.

 

[williamus]

There was a Plymouth - Glasgow/Edinburgh service until May 1995.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-22/Writtens-3.html

That brings back memories of a bizarre but enjoyable journey from Northfield to Glasgow in about 1993 via New Street to Bristol TM to pick up the sleeper (2250ish?)...then back through Northfield and New Street (possibly Camp Hill) to Edinburgh and then across to Glasgow.