slammers with buffets ran by swt

[387star]

What were those slammers which had buffets and modern seating ie not bench style. Were these classed as long distance stock? Any pics? They used to run between havant and guildford and were Orange painted inside

 

[Juniper Driver]

These?When I first signed these units I didn't get on them much as I didn't sign Pompey.

Used to do empties to Clapham Yard on them though.Happy days.

 

[387star]

Thats them! They must have been refurbished by nse. Love the look of them

 

[Hydro]

4BEP's, a CEP with a buffet wagon inserted. Never been on one, I only had the bog standard CEP's down on the South Eastern. There was a CIG equivalent on the Brighton lines called a BIG.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Thats them! They must have been refurbished by nse. Love the look of them

Great units,loved them,they were like a tank on rails.

There were 7 of them originally,well when I joined the South Western Division in 1989...There were others.I found a pic of 2317...There were others converted from the CEPs but I dont think they had buffets on board.I do remember them also.

Also on a side note the newly converted batch were "greyhound" like the original 7...Faster acceleration as far as I remember.

 

[387star]

What's a greyhound? And any interior pics?

 

[Hydro]

A Greyhound was a CIG with (I think, not too hot on EMU technicalities) an extra weak field position on the power controller, essentially allowing 100mph running and very rapid acceleration.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There were 7 of them originally,well when I joined the South Western Division in 1989...There were others.I found a pic of 2317...There were others converted from the CEPs but I dont think they had buffets on board.I do remember them also.
.

I think 2317 was a renumbering from 2307 when the buffet cars were switched around near the end of their days?

 

[yorksrob]

4BEP's, a CEP with a buffet wagon inserted. Never been on one, I only had the bog standard CEP's down on the South Eastern. There was a CIG equivalent on the Brighton lines called a BIG.

Yeah, we lost ours in the early eighties not long after the CEPs/BEPs were refurbed. Don't think I've ever been in a BEP as my wanderings on the South Western division were quite limited until recently.

Travelled on the BIG's quite a few times though before they were withdrawn (always too skint to buy anything in those days though ).

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Theres a 4BEP (ex-CEP) on the East Kent Railway and in SWT livery, although the only modifications I noticed was the numbering it is now 7105.

 

[yorksrob]

Theres a 4BEP (ex-CEP) on the East Kent Railway and in SWT livery, although the only modifications I noticed was the numbering it is now 7105.

Yes, when I travel on that it will be my first time

It's an interesting reversal of the situation in the late 70's/early80's when some of the BEPs had their buffet cars replaced with trailers and became CEP's !

 

[RPM]

I've got a couple of pics of the interior of the buffet area:

http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p2263644.html
http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p2263645.html

 

[ChrisCooper]

Always funny how the 1950s CEPs and BEPs, once refurbished with their white paneling, orange bulkheads, strip lighting, hopper windows and IC70 seats looked more modern than the 60s and 70s CIGs and VEPs. They had that HST era feel to them, unlike the CIGs and VEPs which had almost an end of steam era feel to them.

 

[yorksrob]

Always funny how the 1950s CEPs and BEPs, once refurbished with their white paneling, orange bulkheads, strip lighting, hopper windows and IC70 seats looked more modern than the 60s and 70s CIGs and VEPs. They had that HST era feel to them, unlike the CIGs and VEPs which had almost an end of steam era feel to them.

Yes, I always far preferred the more gentle ambience of the CIGs and VEP's to the CEPs after refurbishment. Infact I still specify a DEMU carriage when travelling on the Hastings thumper rather than the CEP carriage. I enjoy walking through it to the buffet though

 

[387star]

what are those yellow things for?

 

[MrC]

A Greyhound was a CIG with (I think, not too hot on EMU technicalities) an extra weak field position on the power controller, essentially allowing 100mph running and very rapid acceleration.

Almost A greyhound had an extra set of weak field resistances which were brought into use by an extra step on the camshaft/current limit relay after normal weak field. I can't remember the speed this came in at though but I think it was around 50mph(?). Greyhounds had stickers on the drivers desks to remind drivers that the unit was a greyhound as it was quite easy to end up going quite a bit quicker than a normal unit without realising it and, of course, the brakes weren't modified in any way to suit the extra speed. Official top speed was still 90mph though.

 

[yummy125]

When coming into Basingstoke (on the stopping service) from Waterloo the drivers of these units did not apply the brakes till the last bridge before the cross-over. How they swayed n rocked.

They are much better than the boring units we have now.

 

[bnsf734]

what are those yellow things for?

Shelves to rest your coffee on I would think

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Yes, when I travel on that it will be my first time

It's an interesting reversal of the situation in the late 70's/early80's when some of the BEPs had their buffet cars replaced with trailers and became CEP's !

Great unit that is. I had a compartment to myself when I visited!

As for the refurbishment if anyones interested, In 1975 4CEP No 7153 was rebuilt at Eastleigh, with a view to refurbishing the entire class. Guards vans adjacent to driving cabs were converted to form open passenger accommodation, with a single guards van are replacing two second-class compartments in the trailer composite. A public adress system was installed, along with new gangway connections, Mk2e seating and double glazing, though standard sliding ventilators were retained. Control equipment was updated in line with developments. From 1978, a programme of refurbishment for the entire series was undertaken at Swindon, a visible consequence being renumbering and installation of hopper windows, replacing those of standard sliding design. Intersting enough a few former loco hauled veichles were adapted to for use in the programme.

I think the 4BEPs allocated to the SW were 2301 -07? BEPs disappeared on the SE when there was a 'decline' for buffet cars in the early 80s.

As some of you already know I have had to use some stuff for reference.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I have some interior shots of a greyhound unit:

http://matthew-taylor.fotopic.net/p54259078.html

 

[colchesterken]

Can someone help
what was the point of the additional field winding ,if the top speed was still 90
was it to give better acceleration

 

[Matt Taylor]

I believe that is correct, the units were converted in early 1990.

 

[MrC]

Can someone help
what was the point of the additional field winding ,if the top speed was still 90
was it to give better acceleration

Just that. Acceleration on '57 and '63 type stock tailed off quite a bit after the initial weak field acceleration (at roughly 42-45mph) whereas a greyhound would give you another smaller nudge at about 50mph (from memory) and keep accelerating.

As an aside you had to be a bit careful if driving a multiple unit with a mix of types in as just giving the train notch 4 through weak field would result in a fair amount of surging and lurching as each unit would weak field at slightly different speeds and there was always a bit of slack in the couplers. A sympathetic driver would use notch 4 to get the better acceleration up to just over 40mph and then return to notch 3 before weak field cut in. Once the train's speed got over 45mph you'd take notch 4 again and all the units would smoothly weak field at the same time.

 

[Helvellyn]

Just to add to what SouthEastern-465 said, the original formation of the 4-CEPs was DMBSO-TCK-TSK-DMBSO. On refurbishment this became DMSO-TBCK-TSOL-DMSO. The original formations of the 4-BEPs was the same, execpt the TSK was replaced by a TRB. After refurbishment the remaining TRBs were rebuilt as TRSBs, although most were replaced by rebuilt loco-hauled TSOs seeing the number of 4-BEPs fall from 22 (as built) to 7 (after refurbishment).

Unrefurbished: -

• DMBSO - Driving Motor Brake Second Open (56 Second Class)
• TCK - Trailer Composite Corridor (24 First Class; 24 Second Class; 2 Toilets)
• TSK - Trailer Second Corridor (64 Second Class; 2 Toilets)
• TRB - Trailer Buffet Unclassified (unsure of seating)

Refurbished: -

• DMSO - Driving Motor Second Open (64 Second Class)
• TBCK - Trailer Brake Composite Corridor (24 First Class; 6 Second Class; 2 Toilets)
• TSOL - Trailer Second Open Lavatory (64 Second Class; 2 Toilets)
• TRSB - Trailer Second Buffet (24 Second Class; 9 bench seats; 1 Toilet)

These photos from 74009 on Flickr show various 4-CEP interior shots: -

• Unrefirbished interior of DMBSO in unit 7103, one of the prototype 4-CEPs
• Unrefurbished interior of DMBSO in unit 7109
• Refurbished interior of DMSO in unit 7153, the prototype for refurbishment
• Refurbished interior of DMSO in unit 1528, showing the BR series refurbishment interior

The seat covers ended up being updated at various times: stripes for Hastings electrification; NSE blue (Standard) and purple (First); SWT red (Standard) and blue (First); Connex orange (Standard).

 

[142]

This is the interior of the CEP coach in 421499 which is currently undergoing refurb.

Hope this is of interest.

Will upload the photos of the current progress with the unit now, and post later.

http://www.uk-train.fotopic.net/p68824862.html

 

[MCR247]

Link doesn't work

 

[142]

Link doesn't work

Yea B****Y fotopic played up, iv uploaded all the refurb pics now anyway so included that in the same gallery. Hope this works now.

http://www.uk-train.fotopic.net/c1944316.html

Tom

 

[colchesterken]

very interesting where is it based ?
what livery will it be when done ?and is it planned to do a 4 car unit?

 

[142]

very interesting where is it based ?
what livery will it be when done ?and is it planned to do a 4 car unit?

Currently based Lydney, and will be in Green when complete mate, the CEP coach is currently the one in the worst condition, hence why a lot had to be back to bare metal. It seems to have been in some sort of accident, which at this point in time I am not sure of which, there is an even leveled gash down the side so will have been hit hard, also a couple of panels welded in. This was in pre SWT days looking at the paint, it was between it being BR Grey and BR green from what I can work out, would be interested to know!

 

[Juniper Driver]

A Greyhound was a CIG with (I think, not too hot on EMU technicalities) an extra weak field position on the power controller, essentially allowing 100mph running and very rapid acceleration.

No the power controller still had the original four notches.Faster acceleration though.

I think 2317 was a renumbering from 2307 when the buffet cars were switched around near the end of their days?

Now you have jogged my memory I think the reason was that the buffet car was taken out and replaced with a "normal" coach from a CEP but these units still retained "greyhound" capability.As we also had the kent coasters (CEPS) it could get a bit confusing as they looked the same as these units but didn't have the "greyhound" capability.