Skid control

[strange6]

How on earth can you control skidding on metal - metal contact surfaces? Surely you're in the lap of the gods with regard to a SPAD if the skid is close enough to the signal. Without being formally trained, I would imagine it's all about defensive driving; being aware of the situation and adapting your braking style to suite the condidtions i.e braking a touch earlier, running a few mph less than track speed, carrying out more running brake tests etc???

 

[Yank 119]

This video may be of interest.

 

[strange6]

This video may be of interest.

Nice one! Thanks! It's common sense in theory but applying it in practice does take some skill!

I also admire my Northern driver friends who don't have WSP systems or sanders and have to rely on their sound common sense and very high skill levels.

 

[davelew99]

What an interesting video!

Gives me a bit more info related to my thread here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=52304

Interestingly there was a 508 in the video too.

 

[driver9000]

Use your route knowledge, use your judgement of the railhead and the prevailing weather conditions. Brake earlier and lighter if possible too, this will give you chance to control the slide by releasing the brake to get the wheels going again. For the trains I drive, braking a tread braked train (no WSP) I brake earlier than a normal approach to give myself plenty of room should the wheels 'pick up' so I can release the brakes and try again. Driving a disc braked train with sanders we leave the brake alone when wheelslide occurs and let the WSP/sander do its job although I will also brake earlier and lighter too but the sander won't operate until the brake is in step 2 or above 50%. If you've done everything you can to control the slide and you think you've run out of room ie miss a platform or worse then place the brake to Emergency and leave it there! When I brake in low adhesion and I get slide indication (gearbox lamps, dancing speedo or 0) I give it a couple of seconds if I can because indications only apply to the vehicle I'm driving from and there might be other vehicles with wheels rolling and giving a brake.

Driving in low adhesion conditions is a test of the Drivers skills and all new Drivers at my TOC (I expect all TOCs do the same) attend a 'skid pan' session which involves running a train along a line coated in a slippy detergent and then trying to stop it at a specified location to get a feel for driving in low adhesion. It is a good training aid but there is nothing like being out on your own and seeing your gearbox lamp illuminate, the speedo drop to 0 and it all going quiet for the first time! I'll never forget one of my first long slides.

Network Rail issue a leaf fall forecast to the regions and these are posted in crew booking on points but these are forecast for fairly large areas and obviously conditions may have changed since the notice was posted or since you booked on. Railhead treatment trains also run through the 'leaf fall' season and these will begin operating in the next couple of weeks.

 

[strange6]

A fine example of British train driver expertise by driver9000; no wonder our train systems are the safest in the world

 

[HST Power]

How on earth can you control skidding on metal - metal contact surfaces?

Railworks 2 offers a very good education is such matters.

driver9000 has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Mind your brakes and use your route knowledge.

 

[strange6]

Railworks 2 offers a very good education is such matters.

driver9000 has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Mind your brakes and use your route knowledge.

And your speed

 

[pendolino]

Driving in low adhesion conditions is a test of the Drivers skills and all new Drivers at my TOC (I expect all TOCs do the same) attend a 'skid pan' session which involves running a train along a line coated in a slippy detergent and then trying to stop it at a specified location to get a feel for driving in low adhesion.

We don't have those any more, but they used to be run on Sundays on a section of line that had no Sunday service. I believe the reason they were stopped was something to do with the detergent not being cleaned off sufficiently and the first train the next morning sliding right through a station. Now we have simulator sessions, which I personally feel are of limited value. As you say, you only really begin to learn how to drive under low adhesion conditions when it happens for real outside of a controlled environment.

Network Rail issue a leaf fall forecast to the regions and these are posted in crew booking on points but these are forecast for fairly large areas and obviously conditions may have changed since the notice was posted or since you booked on.

Some of the statistics on those make me chuckle - '74.8% of leaves have fallen'. How do they know? Has someone counted?

 

[Rugd1022]

You've partially answered your own question in your OP Keith, namely 'defensive driving' which we get regular reminders of at certain times of the year. It might be slightly different for other TOCs / FOCs but at Freightliner HHL we have the additional instruction to do no more than 10mph over the AWS magnet when approaching a red signal.

As Driver9000 rightly says though, our route knowledge comes to the fore here, and once you've experienced a skid you adjust your driving style accordingly. As an example, since I skidded almost all the way through Beechwood Tunnel a few years ago on a light engine I've became very wary of that particular location. Arley Tunnel is the same, it can be very wet inside sometimes and the steep gradient doesn't help, with the signal just round the corner being red you have to be extra careful. Another very nasty spot is Walsall's WL51 signal at the foot of the bank as you come down off the Sutton Park line at Ryecroft Junction, a mate of mine had a SPAD there several years ago with a short freight weighing barely 200tons when his wheels just picked up, it shook him quite badly and he is well known for being a very conciencous and professional driver.

 

[strange6]

You've partially answered your own question in your OP Keith, namely 'defensive driving' which we get regular reminders of at certain times of the year. It might be slightly different for other TOCs / FOCs but at Freightliner HHL we have the additional instruction to do no more than 10mph over the AWS magnet when approaching a red signal.

As Driver9000 rightly says though, our route knowledge comes to the fore here, and once you've experienced a skid you adjust your driving style accordingly. As an example, since I skidded almost all the way through Beechwood Tunnel a few years ago on a light engine I've became very wary of that particular location. Arley Tunnel is the same, it can be very wet inside sometimes and the steep gradient doesn't help, with the signal just round the corner being red you have to be extra careful. Another very nasty spot is Walsall's WL51 signal at the foot of the bank as you come down off the Sutton Park line at Ryecroft Junction, a mate of mine had a SPAD there several years ago with a short freight weighing barely 200tons when his wheels just picked up, it shook him quite badly and he is well known for being a very conciencous and professional driver.

Thanks for that Your posts reassure me in that they convey the professionalism and expertise of the British train driver in all its glory and that handling a train is not as easy as some people think it is, which I know all too well from the very little experience that I have had.