Ski Trains

[pethadine82]

I am thinking of doing a skiing holiday, and was wondering what the service to
Les Arc 2000 in Bourg saint Maurice is like.
As it is near 9 hours, do they give you a bed or is it just like recliner chairs, are meals provided in the ticket?

The other option was to fly to Geneva and get a transfer to the resort.
For value for money are there any packages that do the whole package ie tickets, transfers , accommodation, ski hire and lift passes?

Many thanks

 

[flash]

You may need to be more specific with your question...

If you are talking about the Eurostar services, either night or day, you get a class 373 with seats (no beds) depending on the class depends on whether you get food or not. Eurostar ski trains are 'dry' (or near enough) following alcohol related incidents.

There may well be other services and or providers.

 

[Gordon]

I am thinking of doing a skiing holiday, and was wondering what the service to
Les Arc 2000 in Bourg saint Maurice is like.
As it is near 9 hours, do they give you a bed or is it just like recliner chairs, are meals provided in the ticket?

The other option was to fly to Geneva and get a transfer to the resort.
For value for money are there any packages that do the whole package ie tickets, transfers , accommodation, ski hire and lift passes?

Many thanks

The London - Bourg St Maurice Eurostar is a plain Eurostar so the seats are not even reclining.

As has been the case for decades, Ski travel companies still offer package holidays to most resorts in Western Europe. Les Arcs holidays are likely to be via Geneva Airport (possibly Chambery or Grenoble airport) plus road coach.

UPDATE - I just checked Crystal holidays and they offer St Pancras as a departure point for Les Arcs


.

 

[philjo]

for the last 2-3 years when my brother went skiing he and his friends used a daytime Eurostar and then got the sleeper train from Paris which went direct to the resort they were staying in. When he was looking to book this year, SNCF no longer run the sleeper so they flew to Geneva instead.

 

[Gordon]

. When he was looking to book this year, SNCF no longer run the sleeper .

Indeed.

The demise of French overnight trains has been well documented in this and other forums.

One of the few surviving overnights serves the ski resort of Briancon, a ski area I would recommend. The train is interesting too as it is still diesel hauled from the Rhone valley up into the Alps - so some thrash to enjoy.



.

 

[MarcVD]

Yes. But now hauled by modern BB75000 (Alstom prima diesel) rather than old BB 67400.

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[Bald Rick]

Even when the sleepers rather were hardly relaxing. A few hours in the disco coach, and you stumble to bed when the train is somewhere around Dijon, and wake up with a sore head somewhere around Chambery!

Les Arcs is great skiing, and easy to get to as the station at Bourg St Maurice is next to the funicular up to Arc 1600. The night Eurostar has lots of time in it for Engineering works etc, and is a couple of hours slower than the day train. The benefit of the night train is, nominally, that you arrive at the slopes early and get an extra day skiing in, the reality, in my experience is that you arrive knackered and just want to go to bed, but can't as your accommodation isn't ready for another 6 hours!

Flying to Geneva is cheap and extremely frequent, however it is a 3 hour transfer to Les Arcs, which will cost you a decent sum however you do it. A quicker option is to fly to Chambery airport, where the transfer is about 90mins. However the flights are much less frequent and usually more expensive, which will just about offset your reduced transfer cost.

Depending how close to an airport or St Pancras / Ebbsfleet you are will determine which is quickest. If you are within half an hour of Eurostar, then the day train will just about be quicker than flying. Anywhere else and the plane will be quicker, and probably cheaper too.

The usual suspects of ski travel agents will sell you a trip including Eurostar, accommodation, ski passes etc. Crystal ski are normally quite good. Beware that travel agents block book an allocation of Eurostar seats, and once they've gone, they've gone.

 

[Gordon]

Yes. But now hauled by modern BB75000 (Alstom prima diesel) rather than old BB 67400.

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No, just three days ago last weekend there were not only 67400 in use but 67300, with two of the 67400 in the original blue livery.


.

 

[MarcVD]

Either an emergency replacement or a diagram change again but recently a few rail magazines have published pictures of this train hauled by BB 75000, saying that it would now be the norm.

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[racklam]

When CEVA opens in Geneva are there likely to be trains direct from Geneva through to Bourg, or will they only go to Annecy or Chambery (perhaps on to Grenoble)?

 

[Gordon]

a few rail magazines have published pictures of this train hauled by BB 75000, saying that it would now be the norm.

I agree, five years ago it was supposed to be the end for the old diesels, replaced by 75300. But the fact is that use of old diesels is clearly planned (not a last minute change) it was known in December that SNCF would be moving 7 or 8 67s to Portes depot to either haul or be in reserve for the ski high season this year.

Last weekend there were as many 67s as 75s working. Who knows why but that's how it is (its SNCF...)

In fact I'm quite irritated. If I'd known there was such a good chance of 67400s and even a 67300 working this year I would have made a trip to see the spectacle 'one last time' (I last went in 2006 when all the trains were 67400 and they came from all over France not just Paris)


.

 

[Gordon]

When CEVA opens in Geneva are there likely to be trains direct from Geneva through to Bourg, or will they only go to Annecy or Chambery (perhaps on to Grenoble)?

No, yes and no

St Gervais will be the only ski resort directly served.

The main thrust of Leman Express (CEVA is just the Geneve - Annemasse rebuild) is to provide cross Geneva routes ie:

Romont/Vevey/Lausanne - Annemasse;
Coppet - Annemasse/Annecy/Evian/St Gervais

Geneve - Chambery - Grenoble will be TER via Bellegarde as now

.

 

[Please Explain]

I agree, five years ago it was supposed to be the end for the old diesels, replaced by 75300. But the fact is that use of old diesels is clearly planned (not a last minute change) it was known in December that SNCF would be moving 7 or 8 67s to Portes depot to either haul or be in reserve for the ski high season this year.

Last weekend there were as many 67s as 75s working. Who knows why but that's how it is (its SNCF...)

In fact I'm quite irritated. If I'd known there was such a good chance of 67400s and even a 67300 working this year I would have made a trip to see the spectacle 'one last time' (I last went in 2006 when all the trains were 67400 and they came from all over France not just Paris)


.

Hi Gordon,

What do you think the chances are of this happening again next year? I'm guessing by your post null?!
As already said many times elsewhere on the forum, it seems the end is near.. C'est la vie... :cry:

Also, another question for you Marc in Belgium.
Do you know anything about the "Austria Express"? I seen videos of it on YouTube last year with SNCB/NMBS I6 stock which I believe ran from Brussel / Bruxelles to the Austrian ski resorts in the Alps via Den Haag. I've always been interested to know more about it, is/was it run by the SNCB/NMBS or a private charter train? I had great difficulty in finding out much info about it on the net but it appeared to be linked to an outfit by the name of "Rail Promo Triski" or something like that from what I seen on youtube.
It also had the converted I10 Bar/Disco in the composition which looked like great fun!
As far as I know its been cancelled now anyway...
Maybe you or someone else here knows more.

Merci / dank u wel!

 

[Gordon]

Hi Gordon,

What do you think the chances are of this happening again next year? I'm guessing by your post null?!


Also, another question for you Marc in Belgium.
Do you know anything about the "Austria Express"? I

I would be pleasantly surprised if the 67s ran again next year to Briancon. I have my doubts but then I didn't expect it to last till this season!

Re the Austria ski trains - see Todays's Railways Europe issue 255 (current issue) page 40...


.

 

[MarcVD]

Also, another question for you Marc in Belgium.
Do you know anything about the "Austria Express"? I seen videos of it on YouTube last year with SNCB/NMBS I6 stock which I believe ran from Brussel / Bruxelles to the Austrian ski resorts in the Alps via Den Haag. I've always been interested to know more about it, is/was it run by the SNCB/NMBS or a private charter train? I had great difficulty in finding out much info about it on the net but it appeared to be linked to an outfit by the name of "Rail Promo Triski" or something like that from what I seen on youtube.
It also had the converted I10 Bar/Disco in the composition which looked like great fun!
As far as I know its been cancelled now anyway...
Maybe you or someone else here knows more.

This train did not run this year because SNCB did not manage to obtain an
agreement with the company running the train like it was done last year.

Railpromo was the name of the company running that train, with SNCB
supplying part of the stock/traction and promoting the train in Belgium.

As far as I remember, it was hauled by SNCB Traxx locos from Belgium
straight to Austria with no loco change in between, certainly one of the longest
haul for a passenger train (that's a subject that would deserve its own topic).

It is still an objective to run this train next year.

However, an alternative will have to be found regarding rolling stock, because
the I6 couchette cars that were used previously are now living their last
months. As of next year they cannot be used anymore without a heavy
refurbishment, and as they are rarely used, SNCB decided not to proceed with
that. So early next year those cars will be scrapped. They are still available for
hire in 2016, though.

As far as I know, the restaurant and bar-disco cars come from I10 stock, not
from I6 and therefore will remain available for several more years.

 

[Please Explain]

This train did not run this year because SNCB did not manage to obtain an
agreement with the company running the train like it was done last year.

Railpromo was the name of the company running that train, with SNCB
supplying part of the stock/traction and promoting the train in Belgium.

As far as I remember, it was hauled by SNCB Traxx locos from Belgium
straight to Austria with no loco change in between, certainly one of the longest
haul for a passenger train (that's a subject that would deserve its own topic).

It is still an objective to run this train next year.

However, an alternative will have to be found regarding rolling stock, because
the I6 couchette cars that were used previously are now living their last
months. As of next year they cannot be used anymore without a heavy
refurbishment, and as they are rarely used, SNCB decided not to proceed with
that. So early next year those cars will be scrapped. They are still available for
hire in 2016, though.

As far as I know, the restaurant and bar-disco cars come from I10 stock, not
from I6 and therefore will remain available for several more years.

Thanks for all your detailed inside info Marc, its great to hear things from our European colleagues and local enthusiasts on the ground. I'm assuming your an agent de SNCB/NMBS?

I'm writing from Metz Ville now, I've just taken ES 9116 out from London this morning to pick up IC 2112 -(EC 97 Iris's replacement service, albeit cut back to terminate at Luxembourg as a normal international IC train). I was overjoyed when the booked composition of M5 / I6 voitures showed up! Last time I went for that I got a AM96 :-x .
I enjoyed a compartment to myself the whole way to Luxembourg and was bitterly disappointed at having to change for a unit to Thionville to wait for an hour to find the TER to Metz delayed waiting for a late running RE from Luxembourg, making me miss my connection to Strasbourg for the TER200 to Bâle.. Now having to change in Sarrebourg, Strasbourg and Offenburg to reach Basel for Fasnacht..!

So much for retacing the route of le Vauban et Iris...

Those I6 cars may be old but their simply too good for scrap! Some must be saved!!

Merci

 

[MarcVD]

No I'm not an SNCB employee. Just a railway enthusiast who has access to some insider information.

I6 cars are full of asbestos and quite complex to maintain so preservation by a volunteer organization might prove difficult.

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