Skelmersdale Station

[Elecman]

What dual capacity stock might just be available from the South to transfer to Merseyside/Lancashire as more Southern cast offs that would also happen to fit in the Mersey Underground???

 

[Camden]

Quite right... Though that surely exposes the naivety of the 1950s/60s planners that designed the place, as it is an absolute pain for anyone who doesn't have access to a car. I worked at the Asda in Skem whilst a student living in Ormskirk, and the poor, slow bus route linking the two places was a real problem, not helped by Arriva North West's insistence on routing almost every service via the Skelmersdale depot to allow drivers to change over (which often took up to 10 minutes).

The car requiring nature of the design strikes me like one of those glaring factors that is only noticed when something is complete, leaving the person responsible standing there shuffling uncomfortably. Like a skyscraper being completed without a lift to the upper floors.

The population of Skelmersdale were sent there from Liverpool, so you couldn't have picked a population less car-oriented in the first place if you tried, without coming to London. These things have knock on consequences, both direct and indirect, and suffice to say it was a very silly thing to do, and the railway station is long overdue.

Maybe it might even drive enough demand to warrant a free circular connecting bus, which could also do something to improve access to the station from across the town/improve intra-town connectivity.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe it might even drive enough demand to warrant a free circular connecting bus, which could also do something to improve access to the station from across the town/improve intra-town connectivity.

Would the cost of providing this free circular connecting bus fall upon the West Lancashire Council?

 

[Camden]

Would the cost of providing this free circular connecting bus fall upon the West Lancashire Council?

Who knows. Given the majority of the passengers would be getting onto Merseyrail services, and thus putting money into their pockets, perhaps there is a case for this to be at least part funded?

Although outside the official city region, there is a distinct "one of us" sentiment noticeably prevalent inside the Liverpool area about Skelmersdale. You don't often get cities talking about stimulating the economies of towns outside their borders, so perhaps this sort of arrangement might not be as difficult as it may sound.

It is after all just as much in Liverpool's interests that this is proved a success, so the more people using the service the better.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It could be said to be a major failing of the 1970s creation of the PTE areas that Skelmersdale ended up being stuck between Merseytravel and what was originally known as SELNEC. There are so many things about Skelmersdale that should form the basis of exactly how NOT to plan a New Town!

Speaking of Skem, it is quite a while since I've been there, do most of the roundabouts still have "artworks" on them?

 

[WatcherZero]

It could be said to be a major failing of the 1970s creation of the PTE areas that Skelmersdale ended up being stuck between Merseytravel and what was originally known as SELNEC. There are so many things about Skelmersdale that should form the basis of exactly how NOT to plan a New Town!

Speaking of Skem, it is quite a while since I've been there, do most of the roundabouts still have "artworks" on them?

Yes it was a failing in management though you could see why the government of the time did what it did, there had to be a large enough urban area in a rural district to offset the increased costs of rural services, without having such a tax generator the district would not be financially viable. Same thing happened with Warrington which was originally to be in Greater Manchester but they realised Cheshire needed its tax revenues to be a viable entity.

I thought Leigh also makes that claim?

Half a dozen places make the same claim with varying degrees of merit.

Dudley... Though it has an out of town station just 1.8 miles away.
Leigh... Though residents use Hindley and Atherton
Newcastle-Under-Lyme.... Though Stoke station a km away, halfway between it and Hanley the city centre of Stoke.
Oldham.... If you don't include Light Railway
Gosport...Though can reach Portsmouth Harbour Station in just five minutes by ferry.

Theres also half a dozen cities without stations, mainly as they have populations under or a little over 10,000.

 

[Camden]

I think in order to make the claim in any meaningful way, the fact has to result in transport isolation for the place in question. Newcastle does have a station just as Hanley, Tunstall, and the other Stoke towns do - in Stoke-upon-Trent. Dudley is part of a bigger city too, and served by three stations (just in a different borough boundary). Leigh is pretty isolated, though.

Oldham would be a super cheeky claim! They gave up their station(s) in favour of having that tram line!

 

[snowball]

Also Greenfield station is within the borough of Oldham, and Mills Hill is only 100m outside the boundary.

 

[Corriman]

Yes, artwork still on a few of the traffic islands.]

 

[Gathursty]

I would like to see this Skelmersdale station exist but I'm not too sure where the spur should go to. Clearly the Conny is a contender but putting it in Old Skem near where it used to be seems more fitting.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I would like to see this Skelmersdale station exist but I'm not too sure where the spur should go to. Clearly the Conny is a contender but putting it in Old Skem near where it used to be seems more fitting.

Old Skem though is not particularly central to modern day Skelmersdale... Also, that station was served by the line from Ormskirk which AIUI was at a higher elevation than the current Wigan to Kirkby line. Besides, isn't the ring-road built on the alignment close to the original station site?

 

[PR1Berske]

As has been said on here, this scheme is long overdue. I support 'Skem' getting its new station, but look guardedly at the inevitable problems with realigning the Wigan-Rainford-Kirkby line to allow for the spur to be built.

 

[Corriman]

According to the Skelmersdale Rail Feasability Study (link posted by the OP) the spur would enter the town across the motorway by the Matalan factory running towards the concourse on a similar path as the present Southway, which is a wide dual carriageway.
I don't think a site for a station has been decided, but it will be close to the "Conny". My bet would be on the Glenburn School site which the council has decided to close. This is a location close to the town centre that used to have two schools and a swimming baths.
They knocked down our sports center too, but that's another story
The old station site is now part of the ring-road, and I don't think a rail link from Skem to Liverpool via Ormskirk is the best option. It would add capacity to an already busy route. Also it takes 31 mins from Ormskirk to Central station, add a least another 10 mins for the extra distance out to Skem. The route proposed via Kirby would have 30 min journey time with also a 60 min direct route to Manchester.

 

[Olaf]

Huh??

Edit:
Ah right, I remember you now, just had a shufty back through your posts. Well, Liverpool and Merseyrail look like they should be getting some well earned rare investment on a profitable and worthy scheme connecting up, and helping to energise, their city region economy. Those in the supposed, and self appointed, "regional centre" over in Manchester will just need to learn to cope with the disappointment of seeing someone else (for a change) get a flash of cash. Push back enough? Given this significant, profit making scheme only requires just over half the amount recently allocated to build your city yet another metrolink tram line, I'm sure they'll cope.

My comment has nothing to do with whatever you might think. There is a technical problem with this project proposal which means that the costing need to be re-done; nothing to do with the local flavour of inverted snobbery and small-worldism. If you went a little further back, you might also find that this is the only realistic project that Merseytravel came up with in its most recent re-cycling of old fantasies.

Edit:
Correction: It was not Merseytravel that suggested the scheme - something they had not thought of, but rather NR.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

According to the Skelmersdale Rail Feasability Study (link posted by the OP) the spur would enter the town across the motorway by the Matalan factory running towards the concourse on a similar path as the present Southway, which is a wide dual carriageway.

I am sure that the matter of the said rail overbridge which is to cross the motorway was discussed at quite some length some years ago based upon on the costing optionss of the type of different bridges that could be deployed.

Have they finally decided now as to the one that they have chosen for these submissions and also whether it will need to cross the motorway on the skew.

 

[Chester1]

I think it would be better to electrify Kirkby-Wigan, adding passing loops so it can support 2tph service and build a big park and ride at Upholland with a half hourly bus service around Skelmersdale. This would be allot cheaper with twice as much current line to upgrade but no new line. It would also mean both Liverpool lines to Wigan being electric. If Upholland became heavily used after gaining a good service then it would provide a more reliable case for a line into Skelmersdale.

 

[Corriman]

I think it would be better to electrify Kirkby-Wigan, adding passing loops so it can support 2tph service and build a big park and ride at Upholland with a half hourly bus service around Skelmersdale. This would be allot cheaper with twice as much current line to upgrade but no new line. It would also mean both Liverpool lines to Wigan being electric. If Upholland became heavily used after gaining a good service then it would provide a more reliable case for a line into Skelmersdale.

I don't think you know the area very well. Upholland station is very isolated (even from upholland) and a park and ride is most definitely not the answer. The people of Skelmersdale want and deserve a direct service.
The feasibility study predicts the line from Skem to Liverpool would be profit making from day one.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think you know the area very well. Upholland station is very isolated (even from upholland) and a park and ride is most definitely not the answer. The people of Skelmersdale want and deserve a direct service. The feasibility predicts the line from Skem to Liverpool would be profit making from day one.

I remember only too well how far Upholland railway station actually is from the town, as very many years ago (1970's) when it was a hot sunny day, I decided to use the Manchester to Kirkby train to travel to Upholland railway station (never having done this journey from the railway station to the town before) in order to attend a business seminar on Stoney Brow in what I assumed was the training complex premises owned a religious order. The walk seemed never ending and I was quite hot and tired when I eventually arrived there....

 

[Bevan Price]

Towns without stations. There may have been some (slight) population changes.

The "official" definitions of towns & their boundaries have changed over the years, especially in the 1974 reorganisation (Whitehall meddling) in which various towns & villages were lumped together into metropolitan boroughs or other units deemed an "ideal" size by Whitehall. For example, Hanley is a fairly large town with no station, but I could not locate a recent population separate from the combined "City of Stoke On Trent".

Also, information on Wikipedia is not always reliable. The following is an attempt to determine the population of towns, according to "traditional" boundaries, which have no station in or near the "town centre". Separate lists show towns with stations near the edge of the town, and towns with trams but no "mainline" railway station. Populations rounded to the nearest "thousand".

1. No station:-
Gosport 80,000
Washington (Co. Durham) 53,000
Middleton (Lancs.) 45,000
Leigh (Lancs.) 44,000
West Bridgford 44,000
Skelmersdale 39,000
Ilkeston 37,000
Blyth (Northumberland) 36,000
Houghton le Spring 36,000
Dunstable 35,000
Coalville 33,000
Peterlee 30,000
Rushden 29,000
Heywood 28,000
Ashington 27,000
Consett 27,000
Haverhill 27,000
Burntwood (Staffs) 26,000
Daventry 25,000
Newport (I.O.W.) 24,000
Kenilworth 23,000
Heanor, Clevedon, Portishead all 22,000
Ripley 21,000
Hailsham 20,000

2. Only station is on fringe of town:-
Dudley 195,000
Halesowen 55,000

3. Towns with trams but no mainline rail station:-
West Bromwich 137,000
Oldham 103,000
South Shields 82,000
Gateshead 78,000
Bury 60,000
Wallsend 42,000
North Shields 40,000
Whitley Bay 36,000
Jarrow 27,000
Fleetwood 26,000

 

[Chester1]

I don't think you know the area very well. Upholland station is very isolated (even from upholland) and a park and ride is most definitely not the answer. The people of Skelmersdale want and deserve a direct service.
The feasibility study predicts the line from Skem to Liverpool would be profit making from day one.

I know the station is isolated but a regular service to Wigan and Liverpool plus a linking bus service would be a big improvement on now. Profit making or not, £250-300m is a big ask, especially as there is no political benefit, which shouldn't matter but does.

 

[WatcherZero]

West Lancs is a Conservative/Labour marginal and Skelmersdale itself makes up over a third of the electorate, lot of political benefit.

 

[Corriman]

I know the station is isolated but a regular service to Wigan and Liverpool plus a linking bus service would be a big improvement on now. Profit making or not, £250-300m is a big ask, especially as there is no political benefit, which shouldn't matter but does.

A lot of money gets spent on railway projects, this forum is full of them, so why not Skelmersdale?
Population is not necessarily the major factor when accessing a towns need for a station.
Taking a couple of the towns listed in a previous post.
Gosport, only a 5 min ferry trip from Portsmouth and almost impossible now to link to the ralil network.
Middleton is 4 miles from Manchester city centre with buses every 10 mins.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A lot of money gets spent on railway projects, this forum is full of them, so why not Skelmersdale?

A question that could well have been asked every year since its new status as one of the "New Towns" was finalised...:roll:.

 

[Corriman]

West Lancs is a Conservative/Labour marginal and Skelmersdale itself makes up over a third of the electorate, lot of political benefit.

Not sure that would work in Skem's favour, the Tories may not want a Labour MP delivering its constituents a long awaited Railway station.

 

[Chester1]

A lot of money gets spent on railway projects, this forum is full of them, so why not Skelmersdale?
Population is not necessarily the major factor when accessing a towns need for a station.
Taking a couple of the towns listed in a previous post.
Gosport, only a 5 min ferry trip from Portsmouth and almost impossible now to link to the ralil network.
Middleton is 4 miles from Manchester city centre with buses every 10 mins.

The cynical answer is that its in a safe Labour seat and therefore its a low priority for either major party, Labour doesn't need to pork barrel (spending taxpayers money to gain votes) in order to win and it isn't worth the Conservatives trying. £250-300m is very rarely spent in the North, its a bit less than half the cost of Northern Hub for instance. I think its a good idea but a reduced plan B on the basis I suggested would be good as a backup. Electrifying and increasing capacity for Kirkby-Wigan would probably increase the business case for building a spur line.

A question that could well have been asked every year since its new status as one of the "New Towns" was finalised...:roll:.

It never should have been disconnected in the first place!

 

[Corriman]

I am sure that the matter of the said rail overbridge which is to cross the motorway was discussed at quite some length some years ago based upon on the costing optionss of the type of different bridges that could be deployed.

Have they finally decided now as to the one that they have chosen for these submissions and also whether it will need to cross the motorway on the skew.

This is from a lancs council doc.
"The Skelmersdale Rail Link
The new rail link would broadly follow the alignment of the Tawd Valley, passing
under the M58 using the existing bridge spanning Whiteledge Road. This structure
was originally intended to accommodate a dual carriageway road but the second
carriageway has not been constructed. Alterations to the local highway network
would be necessary where the new line would cross Gillibrands Road (Thorn Island)
and Grimshaw Road. There are two potential locations for the railway station"

 

[Stonesourscotty]

As a User of Orrell A Proposed Interchange at Skelmersdale would mean i'd change to catching trains to Liverpool from Garswood or travelling via Wigan from Orrell on Wavertreee Tech Park Ticket as Skelmersdale just is a bit too rough for me these days

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is from a lancs council document..."The Skelmersdale Rail Link"

"The new rail link would broadly follow the alignment of the Tawd Valley, passing under the M58 using the existing bridge spanning Whiteledge Road. This structure was originally intended to accommodate a dual carriageway road but the second carriageway has not been constructed.

Alterations to the local highway network would be necessary where the new line would cross Gillibrands Road (Thorn Island) and Grimshaw Road. There are two potential locations for the railway station"

May I enquire as to the date that this document was published by the council and also if there any other documentation the gives cost estimates for the said alterations to the local highway network (including the required new sewerage and stormwater infrastructure) that is referred to in this document that you have cited.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a User of Orrell A Proposed Interchange at Skelmersdale would mean i'd change to catching trains to Liverpool from Garswood or travelling via Wigan from Orrell on Wavertreee Tech Park Ticket as Skelmersdale just is a bit too rough for me these days

It's been a while since I was anywhere near there, but I've heard from a few people that the large influx of Polish people has improved it no end, because they, unlike far too many of the locals, actually care about where they live.

 

[Corriman]

May I enquire as to the date that this document was published by the council and also if there any other documentation the gives cost estimates for the said alterations to the local highway network (including the required new sewerage and stormwater infrastructure) that is referred to in this document that you have cited.

Have a look. http://council.lancashire.gov.uk/documents/s63650/Report.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As a User of Orrell A Proposed Interchange at Skelmersdale would mean i'd change to catching trains to Liverpool from Garswood or travelling via Wigan from Orrell on Wavertreee Tech Park Ticket as Skelmersdale just is a bit too rough for me these days

On please... Skelmersdale has it's share of idiots just like everywhere else. I'm sure you will be just as safe changing trains at Skem as you were at Kirkby.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's been a while since I was anywhere near there, but I've heard from a few people that the large influx of Polish people has improved it no end, because they, unlike far too many of the locals, actually care about where they live.

Bit off topic Neil, why don't you start a new thread on the subject and we'll carry on discussing the possibility of a new much needed rail link.
Oh, and my next door neighbours are Polish, and you're right they're lovely.