Skelmersdale station proposals & suggestions

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The route would be fine, it's along a main road which would be diverted. It's just the site.

Some time ago, I was told the land area for the proposed new station for Skelmersdale was bought for only £1. What is the truth of that particular matter?

 

[Basil Jet]

Some time ago, I was told the land area for the proposed new station for Skelmersdale was bought for only £1. What is the truth of that particular matter?

It's common for government departments to sell each other things for a pound. IIRC the Waterloo and City Line was sold to TfL for a pound.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

<Checks that this thread is in Speculative....>

So far the main objection to 'Skem Parkway' ideas have been that extending Merseyrail twice an hour from Kirkby/Headbolt Lane to Wigan would lose the through service to Manchester.

But to pick up one of the ideas from the Skem branch proposal, an idea was to have two adjacent single track lines, one of which would link to Wigan (and so Manchester) while the other would go to Headbolt Lane (and so Liverpool). This would minimise the degree of interaction between Merseyrail and the rest of the railway (what with independence from other services importing delays being one of Merseyrail's strong points)

Given that (as I understand it) the line from Rainford (and maybe Headbolt Lane - I'm not too sure of the number of tracks from there) to Wigan is twin track, could the 'adjacent single track' scheme be adapted? This would give a single track Merseyrail line from Headbolt Lane to Wigan Wallgate: I see that Wallgate to Kirkby is timetabled for 25 minutes each way, so a single track could support one train an hour from Kirkby to Wallgate and back, giving an hourly Wallgate - Skem Parkway - Headbolt Lane - Liverpool service.

The other track could support a Headbolt Lane - Skem Parkway - Wallgate - Manchester (and vice versa) service - and could the freights be flighted in behind the passenger service?

This could give two trains per hour each way between Headbolt Lane and Wigan, including one through working per hour to Manchester and another through to Liverpool. Direct connectivity is maintained to Manchester and gained to Liverpool - and there are extra journey opportunities by changing at Wallgate or Headbolt Lane.

There's got to be a catch to this, so what have I missed here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I simply can't see why anyone would think 1tph through to Manchester with no early morning or evening service to be preferable to 2 or even 4tph to Wigan Wallgate bay with cross platform connections to Manchester, with first trains at 05xx and last trains at 23xx, and 4 connections per hour, two via Bolton and two via Atherton, plus direct services to Liverpool. It is utterly bizarre. Of course that is better. Transformatively better.

I put it down to enthusiasts' love of quirky little branch line services.

 

[MarkyT]

I simply can't see why anyone would think 1tph through to Manchester with no early morning or evening service to be preferable to 2 or even 4tph to Wigan Wallgate bay

It's approx. 80m from top of ramp to buffer stop face in the bay (platfrom #3) at Wallgate, so a 65m class 777 should fit fine. If it is thought to be a bit tight however, it looks like there's some scope for extending the platform at the buffer stop end without affecting signal positions or track layout at the ramp end, or the buildings and canopies of the station. Trains to and from Liverpool only need to cross the Down Wallgate (DW) to access the bay, so there's no interference with up arrivals into #2 from Southport, although there is an overlap conflict with a simultaneous down arrival in platform #1 from Manchester. That might be solved by adding a facing turnout on the DW before the trailing bay turnout leading to a short overlap spur with a buffer stop. See this Simsig diagram, purely for illustrative purposes:

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Media/Wiki/%2Fsimulations%2Fwigan%2Fwigan-wallgate-signal-number-plan.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why on earth do I keep seeing Headbolt Lane mentioned in all sorts of publicity about being for a parkway or bus interchange for Skem? Did they sneak that into the business case to get it built?

Headbolt Lane is a slower and longer road journey from Skem. OK, it'll be a slightly shorter journey into Liverpool than Maghull North is (which will make the overall journey time similar to each) but surely we want to minimise the car journeys? Kirkby is also a far less safe place to leave a car than Maghull.

 

[urbophile]

Kirkby is also a far less safe place to leave a car than Maghull.

If you're driving from Skem your car would be safer in Kirkby than at home!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you're driving from Skem your car would be safer in Kirkby than at home!

I'd rate them about the same. Obviously some areas of each are better than some other areas of each, as per any place.

They're a bit different from one another - Kirkby is Liverpool overspill (not designed to be self contained, similar to Bletchley as London overspill pre-MK), while Skem is a New Town (designed to be self contained) - but the social issues they both have are similar.

 

[WAO]

<Checks that this thread is in Speculative....>

So far the main objection to 'Skem Parkway' ideas have been that extending Merseyrail twice an hour from Kirkby/Headbolt Lane to Wigan would lose the through service to Manchester.

There's got to be a catch to this, so what have I missed here?

The main objection (for some of us) is in the spacious layout of Skelmersdale that makes the proposed central station (I would like it called "Exchange" or Victoria" if it ever comes about!) just about as remote as Rainford Jn or Upholland for most in the town. Both existing stations would need some road improvements, car parks and bus links but would give people much better rail links from an upgraded Kirkby to Wigan line, both East and Westwards, than a branch could.

What is the best way to spend £300M?

WAO

 

[urbophile]

I'd rate them about the same. Obviously some areas of each are better than some other areas of each, as per any place.

They're a bit different from one another - Kirkby is Liverpool overspill (not designed to be self contained, similar to Bletchley as London overspill pre-MK), while Skem is a New Town (designed to be self contained) - but the social issues they both have are similar.

We've been here before! Vandalism is often (and rightly) associated with social deprivation but there is another factor and that is age. It's too long since I lived in either place for me to pontificate, but Kirkby gained its reputation in its early days when it had the highest proportion of under-21s in Europe.That generation have long since became grandparents, if they haven't left the district. So while there are obviously many scallies still around, I'd be surprised if there were proportionately more of them than in Skem. And Skem is more isolated so you might expect more boredom and hence more anti-social behaviour.
Admittedly my prejudices are showing through! Statistics may well prove me wrong.

 

[frodshamfella]

If the the Skelmersdale branch is not going to happen, and now Merseyrail is going to be controlled by the LCR, I wonder if they might just try to try to take over Kirkby - Wigan, with improved service along that stretch and station enhancements ?

 

[Bald Rick]

If the the Skelmersdale branch is not going to happen, and now Merseyrail is going to be controlled by the LCR, I wonder if they might just try to try to take over Kirkby - Wigan, with improved service along that stretch and station enhancements ?

why would they do that when almost everyone who would benefit would be outside the LCR?

 

[Greybeard33]

why would they do that when almost everyone who would benefit would be outside the LCR?

Indeed. Upholland in Lancs, Orrell and Pemberton in Greater Manchester. Not to mention that the binliner trains between Knowsley and Wigan, which might get in the way of a Merseyrail service, take away the LCR's rubbish!

 

[Bletchleyite]

why would they do that when almost everyone who would benefit would be outside the LCR?

It is known that they have ambitions for Preston, Wigan and Wrexham. Whether funding can be obtained for these is another question, particularly as Skem is very well served by Maghull North so long as you own a car (and could be with a decent bus service there).

 

[WAO]

Maghull North shows what could be achieved for Skelmersdale by good road (and bus) connections to the stations on an improved Kirkby - Wigan line.

WAO

 

[CdBrux]

why would they do that when almost everyone who would benefit would be outside the LCR?

If you ignored Merseyrail and Northern, then GB Rail, have different 'owners' would it not just make sense? I could see that it might be worth a deal being done that Merseyrail are 'paid' to take over the service and run it with their new battery operated trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maghull North shows what could be achieved for Skelmersdale by good road (and bus) connections to the stations on an improved Kirkby - Wigan line.

Because of the M58 a quality bus option could be done using Maghull North now. A high spec bus on the M58 could run at 62mph pretty much the whole way there - quite possibly higher than the likely linespeed on any Skem spur, and could run past a load of houses before it does. Journey time from a random suburb (Tanhouse Church) to Maghull North comes up on Google Maps as 11 minutes.

 

[frodshamfella]

why would they do that when almost everyone who would benefit would be outside the LCR?

Well why suggest the branch in the first place. Don't people from outside LCR travel into it ? It would frankly make more sense the West Lancs was included into LCR.