SK or FK

[43303_43058]

What is the difference between a SK coach and a FK coach? Seating arrangement, legroom, etc…

 

[JonathanH]

What is the difference between a SK coach and a FK coach? Seating arrangement, legroom, etc…

7 compartments in an FK. 8 compartments in a SK, with obvious differences in legroom.

Some SKs were set up for 64 passengers sat 4 across (8 to a compartment) with no armrests, others for 48.

FKs seat 42.

 

[43303_43058]

Ah, thanks

 

[hexagon789]

7 compartments in an FK. 8 compartments in a SK, with obvious differences in legroom.

Some SKs were set up for 64 passengers sat 4 across (8 to a compartment) with no armrests, others for 48.

FKs seat 42.

Except for those converted from downclassed FKs - there were some Mk2A and Cs iirc so treated in the mod-80s.

And pre-Mk1 vehicles were different again. The LMS and LNER both had 7 compartment TKs designs for their best trains (Corridor Thirds as it was then), BR inherited several of these and some lasted well into the 1960s.

Iirc the LMS Stanier "Porthole" design was a 7-compartment design in Third/Second.

 

[43303_43058]

Except for those converted from downclassed FKs - there were some Mk2A and Cs iirc so treated in the mid-80s.

Yeah, I meant the bog-standard Mk1s

 

[Gloster]

The four-across arrangement was at one time a Southern and Western Region preference; the other regions had three-across. All those I can remember had the arm rests sewn up, although they sometimes came down, revealing a lot of dirt and some ageing rubbish. And of course FK and SK stood for Corridor First and Corridor Second, respectively.

 

[norbitonflyer]

7 compartments in an FK. 8 compartments in a SK, with obvious differences in legroom.

Some SKs were set up for 64 passengers sat 4 across (8 to a compartment) with no armrests, others for 48.

FKs seat 42.

As I recall, most of them had armrests which could be folded away, so could seat either 48 or 64. Some of them later had the armrest sewn up (as also happened to the downgraded first class compartments in 2HAPs when converted to 2SAPs)

 

[Cheshire Scot]

As I recall, most of them had armrests which could be folded away, so could seat either 48 or 64. Some of them later had the armrest sewn up (as also happened to the downgraded first class compartments in 2HAPs when converted to 2SAPs)

The 8 seat compartments on the WR and SR Mk1s did not have armrests - the material went all the way across - so even if not full there was nowhere to 'rest' arms..

 

[xotGD]

As I recall, most of them had armrests which could be folded away, so could seat either 48 or 64. Some of them later had the armrest sewn up (as also happened to the downgraded first class compartments in 2HAPs when converted to 2SAPs)

Raising the armrests also converted them into a twin-bed compartment. The perfect overnight accommodation.

 

[Gloster]

The 8 seat compartments on the WR and SR Mk1s did not have armrests - the material went all the way across - so even if not full there was nowhere to 'rest' arms..

The set used in 1978 on the Yeovil News, on which I commuted, definitely had sewn up armrests.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The four-across arrangement was at one time a Southern and Western Region preference; the other regions had three-across. All those I can remember had the arm rests sewn up, although they sometimes came down, revealing a lot of dirt and some ageing rubbish. And of course FK and SK stood for Corridor First and Corridor Second, respectively.

Looking at the diagrams in Hugh Longworth's book, I see that only the SKs delivered to the Western Region had the 4-across arrangment, whereas those delivered to all the other regions including the Southern were three across, with armrests. The armrests could be folded away when the trains were busy, although some may have been sewn up in later years. (This was also done on the SR's 2HAP units when converted to 2SAP by declassifying the First Class compartments.

However, both the Southern and Western Regions seem to have had 4-across in their BSKs and BCKs, and most (but not all) of their CKs.

(BSK - Korridor Second with a Brake van
CK - Korridor Composite (1st and 2nd)
BCK should be obvious!)

 

[Magdalia]

There were also CK corridor composite Mark I coaches with four first class compartments and three second class compartments. CK coaches also had a different arrangement of external doors and windows on the corridor side.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Raising the armrests also converted them into a twin-bed compartment. The perfect overnight accommodation.

Quite so. Although on two occasions I recall emerging from my slumbers to the disapproving glares of three or four early morning commuters on the opposite seat.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The set used in 1978 on the Yeovil News, on which I commuted, definitely had sewn up armrests.

Perhaps by then there were vehicles which had been transferred in from other regions?

Looking at the diagrams in Hugh Longworth's book, I see that only the SKs delivered to the Western Region had the 4-across arrangment, whereas those delivered to all the other regions including the Southern were three across, with armrests.

That is interesting as I believe Southern regarded them as 8 seat compartments although on reflection I am not sure if I ever travelled in a SR SK, but definitely BSK and CK(but possibly BCK).

it is also worth noting at least some of the six seat compartments had notices (in each compartment) to the effect that at busy times passengers should lift the armrests to enable 4 passengers to sit on each side.

EDIT: The RCTS coaching stock book of 1976 lists the SKs on the Southern as (correction) 64 seats (likewise the much larger number on WR but also a few in ER and a small number on LMR (perhaps interregional transfers to the latter two regions?))

There were also CK corridor composite Mark I coaches with three first class compartments and four second class compartments. CK coaches also had a different arrangement of external doors and windows on the corridor side.

I never came across those examples, 4 first and 3 second was the norm. (LMS CKs were 3 first 4 second)

 

[Magdalia]

I never came across those examples, 4 first and 3 second was the norm. (LMS CKs were 3 first 4 second)

You're right. I have corrected my message.

 

[hexagon789]

There were also CK corridor composite Mark I coaches with three first class compartments and four second class compartments. CK coaches also had a different arrangement of external doors and windows on the corridor side.

All Mk1 CK had 4 First and 3 Second compartments.

Thus seating:

WR and SR - 24F, 24S
Other regions: 24F, 18S

One exception (albeit Mk2s) was the five Mark 2C FK converted to CK in 1985 for Inverness-Edinburgh/Glasgow trains which did have 3 First and 4 Second Class compartments. Second Class took over the former smoking compartments IIRC.

 

[greyman42]

Raising the armrests also converted them into a twin-bed compartment. The perfect overnight accommodation.

They used to do that with the FKs on the Motorail services. They even provided pillows and a blanket.