SJPN- overkill process

[Cariad70]

Hi I know there has been a lot of these.

I travelled from Stratford to Camden (no barriers from Rail, but do have the pads) was in a rush and just forgot to tap, at the other end like a innocent fool I approached the ticket officer and admitted that I had not tapped in (yes now know if I had just tapped out I would of only been charged the £6.70. he took my details and advised I would be sent a fine letter (I did say I was happy to pay but he said they did not issue them it was for the office to do so. I work for the police and in conversation he mention that if I had ID he would let me through the barrier (not sure this is correct).

I received the letter and replied guilty and also included a copy of my ID. Thinking I would just get a fine and I could pay this. but I have now received a SJPN (also inspector has said he approached me for a ticket which is a lie), again sent back as guilty, but my issue is this could cost me my job, I will of course have to declare it to my firm but worried this may lead to me losing my job, but feel this is so overkill, as the railway just issue you with a fine you pay and that's it.
Been told this may not lead to a criminal record but have to say I am worried

 

[AlterEgo]

So to clarify, you’ve pleaded guilty to the offence already?

If so, you will be convicted in the magistrates’ court. I assume this is for a Bylaw offence. If so, you will have a criminal record, and be fined by the court, and have a “criminal record” in as much as the conviction will be a matter of “public record”. However there are extremely few circumstances where anyone would realistically find out about it, especially as it is not recorded on the Police National Computer. This means that it will not be disclosed on a Standard DBS check and will in theory only be disclosed on an Enhanced one in very specific circumstances.

If you work for the police I urge you to contact your manager or union rep immediately about this.

 

[AntoniC]

If you work for the police I urge you to contact your manager or union rep immediately about this.

This is excellent advice - if you do not tell them and they later find out you *could* be dismissed as this could be classed as Gross Misconduct so check your staff handbook.

(I am a Civil Servant and I have to report *any* contact with the police if I get arrested or issued a Fixed Penalty Notice - failure to do so leaves me vulnerable to being dismissed for Gross Misconduct).

 

[AdamWW]

I travelled from Stratford to Camden (no barriers from Rail, but do have the pads) was in a rush and just forgot to tap, at the other end like a innocent fool I approached the ticket officer and admitted that I had not tapped in (yes now know if I had just tapped out I would of only been charged the £6.70. he took my details and advised I would be sent a fine letter (I did say I was happy to pay but he said they did not issue them it was for the office to do so. I work for the police and in conversation he mention that if I had ID he would let me through the barrier (not sure this is correct).

So once again the railway takes the view that honesty should be punished....?

 

[Haywain]

So once again the railway takes the view that honesty should be punished....?

Honesty? The OP states they travelled without having tapped in. They also state that they travelled from Stratford which was, last time I looked, fully barriered which raises some questions about where the journey really started.

 

[AlterEgo]

So once again the railway takes the view that honesty should be punished....?

The railway is likely to take the view that someone who hasn’t tapped in and knows about it also won’t tap out at the end. Whether that is right or wrong is not our place to say, but it is what it is I’m afraid.

 

[AdamWW]

Honesty? The OP states they travelled without having tapped in. They also state that they travelled from Stratford which was, last time I looked, fully barriered which raises some questions about where the journey really started.

Maybe I've missed something but it looks to me as if they said they had arrived at Stratford on a National Rail train and then changed on to a service they intended to use contactless on, without passing through barriers to do so.

Is there some reason this couldn't happen?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2023 ==

The railway is likely to take the view that someone who hasn’t tapped in and knows about it also won’t tap out at the end. Whether that is right or wrong is not our place to say, but it is what it is I’m afraid.

I assumed the end station had barriers, from the comment that the OP could have just tapped out and paid the maximum fare.

The hardened fare dodger would presumably do just that faced with a barrier, rather than find someone to explain what they'd done.

 

[Haywain]

Maybe I've missed something but it looks to me as if they said they had arrived at Stratford on a National Rail train and then changed on to a service they intended to use contactless on, without passing through barriers to do so.

Is there some reason this couldn't happen?

It could happen but I believe there are pads to touch in all over Stratford station.

 

[island]

It could happen but I believe there are pads to touch in all over Stratford station.

There's a small handful of yellow validators within the station. The ones I can think of are near platforms 4 (DLR towards Poplar) and 13 (Jubilee).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2023 ==

The railway is likely to take the view that someone who hasn’t tapped in and knows about it also won’t tap out at the end. Whether that is right or wrong is not our place to say, but it is what it is I’m afraid.

Indeed, and one suspects had our OP encountered open gates, a somewhat common occurrence at Camden Road, they might not have considered tapping out.

 

[AdamWW]

It could happen but I believe there are pads to touch in all over Stratford station.

Indeed. The original poster didn't claim that there was no way that they could have tapped in; they said that they forgot.

Not much to be gained by deliberately not tapping in when your destination has barriers, I'd have thought.

Trading off a maximum fare if the barriers are operating vs the small chance of paying nothing if they are open for some reason doesn't seem very sensible.

People do make mistakes.

Even railway staff.

Whether that is right or wrong is not our place to say

Why not?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2023 ==

Indeed, and one suspects had our OP encountered open gates, a somewhat common occurrence at Camden Road, they might not have considered tapping out.

OK so if these gates are often open it might be a reasonable gamble to choose not to tap in and hope to get away with not paying.

But if the gates are shut, why does the habitual fare dodger than go and tell someone they failed to tap in, rather than just going through the barriers and paying the maximum fare?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why not?

Because this is an advice thread. Discussing how we would prefer things to be isn't helpful.

 

[AdamWW]

Because this is an advice thread. Discussing how we would prefer things to be isn't helpful.

OK fair point. I agree this isn't the place to say it.

 

[Cowley]

Ok let’s leave that diversion there for now, obviously if it’s worth discussing as separate topic then feel free to start one and we can always move some posts into it.