Sitting in the vestibule when seats are available

[Mordac]

I've seen people sit on the floor in front of the doors on TPE 350s when there were plenty of seats available. There's no wifi, so that's their excuse?

And I agree with what's been stated above: it obstructs movement, especially if you have mobility issues or are with luggage, though even if you're not, I don't fancy running 110m hurdles just to get to the toilet. This applies to people stretching their legs onto the aisle as well.

 

[PeterC]

Most of my rail travel is on London Underground or Overground these days but even at that level it is an issue. In the past I have been unable to board trains with empty seats due to people jamming the vestibules.

In London, once it starts it forces other people to follow suit for fear of being unable to force their way through the crowd at their destiniation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen people sit on the floor in front of the doors on TPE 350s when there were plenty of seats available. There's no wifi, so that's their excuse?

Who cares, as long as they aren't actually blocking the central aisle?

And I agree with what's been stated above: it obstructs movement, especially if you have mobility issues or are with luggage, though even if you're not, I don't fancy running 110m hurdles just to get to the toilet. This applies to people stretching their legs onto the aisle as well.

Increase seat spacing by about 4" and I won't. Until then, I have had DVT once, I don't want it twice.

"Excuse me, please" is the phrase you need. If they then don't move to let you past I would agree they are rude.

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[Flamingo]

There used to be a "regular" on a busy morning train who would sit on the floor in the middle of the First Class vestibule, with her rucsack, bike helmet, flask and hot drink in open cup spread all around her, and berate the poor Customer Host trying to get the First Class trolley through about how the trolley shouldn't be alowed as IT was a Health and Safety risk.

I used to have loads of fun with her...

 

[najaB]

I used to have loads of fun with her...

Did she ever bounce when you threw her off?

 

[Flamingo]

Unfortunately she was going to a terminal with no stops before - but the impromptu Risk Assessments used to be fun - along with the time I offered to get the train stopped at Slough so I could get the "excess" passengers removed - "I'll tell Control that we need to get 100 people off - do you want to help me pick the other 99?".

 

[Starmill]

Increase seat spacing by about 4" and I won't. Until then, I have had DVT once, I don't want it twice.

"Excuse me, please" is the phrase you need. If they then don't move to let you past I would agree they are rude.

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While I do agree that you are often left with no choice but to 'spill over' with your legs into the aisles (and I'm shorter than you so I can see it being even worse), it can be very awkward walking down a busy Pendolino to get to the facilities:

"Excuse me, sorry, 'scuse me, can I just, sorry, excuse me, sorry... Squeeze past please, thanks, excuse me, sorry."

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I do agree that you are often left with no choice but to 'spill over' with your legs into the aisles (and I'm shorter than you so I can see it being even worse), it can be very awkward walking down a busy Pendolino to get to the facilities:

"Excuse me, sorry, 'scuse me, can I just, sorry, excuse me, sorry... Squeeze past please, thanks, excuse me, sorry."

Agreed, though that's because of the poor design of the interiors, not because of inconsiderate passengers

 

[Blindtraveler]

Try doing it with a white stick and a couple extra stone round the middle? OK I could do something about the belly but not the stick.

I still fail to see the OPPs issue though as its not affecting anyone providing one cooperates with crew and fellow pax.

One of my favourit places on a 158 is in the cycle area on the super cumfy tipups there. Its cool and the thrash is excillent. Appologies to LowLevel for this, youl be glad to know I move for any cyclists

 

[Andrewlong]

I often find people standing on trains between Reading and Waterloo when there are plenty of seats available. They tend to be younger people. Live and let live.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try doing it with a white stick and a couple extra stone round the middle? OK I could do something about the belly but not the stick.

My hips are wider than the aisle on a Class 175/180 which does require some awkward turning-slightly-sideways. No, not because of the lard, that's on my belly.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I also negociate semi sideways

 

[kevjs]

I know I've stood in the vestibule before - after spending a whole day sat downat work having to face 30 minutes of choosing between having my knees rammed into the back of the seat in front, or sitting at an awkward angle with them in the aisle ( and with the latter not being possible on a hst due to the infernal fixed armrests) standing in the vestibule is more comfortable!......

 

[WelshBluebird]

I will generally stand in the vestibule / stand by the doors / sit in the tip up seats on my commute to work. But that is mainly because the rail part of my commute is 7 minutes and 1 stop, so it seems somewhat pointless walking half way down the carriage to find a spare seat only to them have to get up and leave a few mins later! On a longer journey then I will certainly not be choosing to do that! (if nothing else it would be annoying for me to have to constantly move for people).

 

[alxndr]

I often stand in vestibules if it's looking busy because I personally find it more comfortable than hunting up and down for a seat and ending up squashing in next to a stranger, even more so if I've got a large bag and I fear I won't be able to get a seat in the same carriage as the luggage rack I've used. On hot days I sometimes choose the vestibule anyway as there's sometimes a bit of a breeze, and I loathe being too warm.

However, I always try to stay the opposite side to the platform and will move to let anyone get to the toilet/bin/bike space/on, necessary I'll alight and then get back on again. If someone looks like they need a hand with luggage or a pushchair then I'll offer.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I usually don't bother looking for a seat from Batley to Dewsbury or from Dewsbury to Huddersfield. The former is because it isn't worth taking my rucksack off for a three minute journey, the latter is because 95% of the time there isn't a seat, and even if there is the rucksack issue is still there in any case.

 

[TimG]

I often do this on southern. It is preferable to sitting in 3 + 2 seeting on a busy train

 

[Deepgreen]

Many of these posts concern why people choose to stand for their journeys, whereas the OP was referring to those sitting/slumped in the vestibules. Assuming, therefore, that these people want to sit, then not using the seats provided when many are vacant is bizarre and often annoying when they do sprawl and get in the way. The floors are filthy, the floors are uncomfortable and there is a pretty poor view!

 

[Clip]

Stood on a voyager yesterday from Exeter to Bristol - there were seats free when I got on but as I didnt have much lugga e I just left it free for others who may have done at the next stop. Not a problem really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of these posts concern why people choose to stand for their journeys, whereas the OP was referring to those sitting/slumped in the vestibules. Assuming, therefore, that these people want to sit, then not using the seats provided when many are vacant is bizarre and often annoying when they do sprawl and get in the way. The floors are filthy, the floors are uncomfortable and there is a pretty poor view!

But as the convention of sitting in the vestibule is one per side, it's much more spacious than 3+2 seating. And some people do sit on the floor comfortably. Not me, but certainly a lot of younger people.

 

[Clip]

Many of these posts concern why people choose to stand for their journeys, whereas the OP was referring to those sitting/slumped in the vestibules. Assuming, therefore, that these people want to sit, then not using the seats provided when many are vacant is bizarre and often annoying when they do sprawl and get in the way. The floors are filthy, the floors are uncomfortable and there is a pretty poor view!

People may prefer a hard floor than the seats though which are uncomfortable for some.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

At the risk of over generalization, it is nearly always students who do this. You would think they would have the intelligence to know better. They make it very difficult for people to get off and on at intermediate stops. Do the conductors encourage them to take a seat, I wonder?

It even happens on the continent where you have to fight your way through the amassed youngsters with your own luggage at Schiphol or Dusseldorf Flughafen

 

[All Line Rover]

But as the convention of sitting in the vestibule is one per side, it's much more spacious than 3+2 seating. And some people do sit on the floor comfortably. Not me, but certainly a lot of younger people.

Do any trains with 3+2 seating actually have vestibules?

A train with 3+2 seating is cramped regardless of whether people are sat in the gangways or not, but in the context of this thread I am referring to seating such as this (Class 222), which is certainly not cramped.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do any trains with 3+2 seating actually have vestibules?

They can't not have them, how else would people board? (No modern stock has doors in the middle of a seating bay)

 

[Deepgreen]

They can't not have them, how else would people board? (No modern stock has doors in the middle of a seating bay)

Agreed, but I suspect that ALR meant vestibules at the end of each car (a la HSTs, etc), rather than at the doors, wherever they are.

 

[All Line Rover]

They can't not have them, how else would people board? (No modern stock has doors in the middle of a seating bay)

A vestibule is, according to the ODE, "an enclosed entrance compartment in a railway carriage" (Google uses the Concise ODE, which is exactly the same in this case: link).

I know what you are thinking of in the case of e.g. a Class 350, but I can't think of a word better than 'gangway', which is not quite right, although I would tend to call the space between pairs of seats the 'aisle', and restrict the use of 'gangway' to the space around the doors. Even when people are seated in this area with their legs spread out (which is rare), it doesn't cause as much of an obstruction as it does in the vestibules of intercity-style rolling stock.

 

[alxndr]

I've been known to sit on the floor if it's busy on long stretches without stops, for example Paddington - Reading or Taunton - Bristol. Once slowing for a station and people are moving around I'll get up though, and stand where stations are closer together. I'm always very aware that I might be getting in the way, and will try to avoid doing so, but if there's no one moving around I can't see how it hurts to sit.

If there's obviously real seats free though then I can't see why anyone would prefer the floor.

 

[TimG]

But as the convention of sitting in the vestibule is one per side, it's much more spacious than 3+2 seating. And some people do sit on the floor comfortably. Not me, but certainly a lot of younger people.

I lay my coat out. My order of preference on southern:

Table seat
Non table seat
Bottom luggage rack opposite the inaccessible toilet.
Floor in "vestibule"
3 + 2

 

[Sprinter153]

I will always tell vestibule dwellers that there are plenty of seats available in coach X or Y. I'll usually announce it too, along with a reminder that seats are for bums not bags (though this often falls on deaf ears).

This doesn't seem to have much effect though, other than elicit sighs when I ask them to move so I can use the CDL panel or the PA point - made worse on modern DMUs with fold down seats in the vestibules which seem to cause many grown men to have tantrums when you have the temerity to want to release the doors.

 

[LowLevel]

Those of you who sit on the floor particularly in the doorways, smell your clothes afterwards.

I've seen every ungodly substance from liquid dog mess, to vomit, to deicing chemicals and air conditioning coolant going into those mats. Consequently I wouldn't touch them with my clothing if you paid me a large amount of money. Treat them as you would a damp stretch of pavement.

Standing is preferable. Saloon carpets are a bit better but the ones in the doorways are just dire.