Single to Return Excess - Admin Fees

[samdod2427]

Hi all - I've just been through the mill trying to buy a 'single to return' excess fare. Thought I'd share the story and see which of the different answers I got was right...

Collected my ticket at HTF, which was an Off-Peak Single (LNR and WMR only) from ACB to EUS (I was boarding at HTF as the train I wanted skipped ACB). I realised it was a single, but I had meant to buy a return. I went into the LNR-run ticket office and the man said he would be able to excess it , but spent a long time trying to get the computer to work and couldn't manage. Said the system was being very slow and I only had a minute to get down to the platforms for the train. With his blessing I boarded the train - he told me to see the conductor on board straight away and explain that the computer hadn't been working at the ticket office, so this was my first chance to purchase.

I found the conductor onboard straight away and he looked at my ticket, looked at me, looked frazzled, and told me he didn't know how to do an excess with a discount (I have a railcard). He told me that I should go to the ticket office at Crewe. My instinct was that this didn't seem right, but didn't seem worth arguing.

I got off at Crewe to change trains, went out through the barriers (there is no Excess Fares window any more) and spoke to someone in the Avanti-run ticket office. She took some time and then quoted me £40-odd for the excess. I protested and asked her to explain. Is the excess not supposed to be the difference in price between the ticket I have and the ticket I need? Yes. Well why is it £40, when my ticket is £31.20 and the ticket I want (a return of the same kind - off peak, LNR only) is £36. She said I was wrong, an off-peak LNR only return was £65 and there was a £10 admin fee for changing a ticket. I felt certain that this was wrong, but she was adamant that this was what the computer was showing her for the price of an LNR only off-peak return. Had she added my railcard? Yes. Was it an LNR only ticket? Yes. I checked the price of a return on my phone and it was still £36, but not on Avanti's system. I suspect she was not selling me an LNR only ticket, as an Avanti+LNR ticket is often £65, but she was adamant that this was all that was available to me. Not willing to pay more than the price of a whole new return to excess my single, I walked away.

On board the CRW - EUS train I sought out the LNR conductor, apologised, and explained the whole saga. I figured at this point that anything she did would be a kindness, I was well past the window of 'first available opportunity', but what did I have to lose... After a couple of minutes poking around she quoted me a price of £4.95, first time, no messing around. Exactly what I thought it should have been the first time - the difference in price between the two tickets, with railcard discount applied.


As I understand the rules, to get a single to return excess fare you must do so before boarding the train or at the first opportunity afterwards. So what about a circumstance like on the WCML, where you might have an LNR ticket for an LNR train, but an Avanti ticket office who will only excess your fare with a £10 admin charge (even if LNR themselves would not). Am I missing something here? In that case is it always going to be cheaper to excess fares on board, where I've never been charged an admin fee. A tax on people who travel from staffed stations! Seems like a preposterous system...

 

[Haywain]

The easiest thing would have been to buy a return ticket and submit the single for refund, all of which could have been done before you boarded.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There's definitely no admin fee applied to excess fares sold. I think a complaint sent to Avanti would be justified.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2026 ==

The easiest thing would have been to buy a return ticket and submit the single for refund, all of which could have been done before you boarded.

I disagree as the OP should be able to get the excess on their single ticket without any hassle (or admin fees!) before they've used their original ticket.

 

[bb21]

While it has always been technically possible, there has never been any entitlement to a single to return excess.

 

[CyrusWuff]

While it has always been technically possible, there has never been any entitlement to a single to return excess.

Not in the TSA, but it is documented in Knowledgebase. Specifically the Excess Procedures at a Ticket Office section.

 

[Haywain]

OP should be able to get the excess on their single ticket without any hassle

That has been clearly proved not to be the case.

 

[bb21]

Not in the TSA, but it is documented in Knowledgebase. Specifically the Excess Procedures at a Ticket Office section.

Correct. It isn't in any public facing terms and conditions, unlike many other types, but always possible to do.

 

[MrJeeves]

Not in the TSA, but it is documented in Knowledgebase. Specifically the Excess Procedures at a Ticket Office section.

All well and good if the staff have actually heard of the Knowledgebase, let alone are willing to look it up!

I tried to excess a ticket at Bromley South once and was simply told it's nothing to do with them and they can't do anything since it was sold online. Thankfully the guard was more than happy to do it on board...

 

[WirralLine]

I find it strange how many people particularly in ticket offices want nothing to do with excesses - i do them onboard quite often. Its a straightforward process. You select the type of excess you want - overdistance, single to return, etc. Then search up the customers original ticket exactly as you would when looking to sell any normal ticket. Select the correct ticket from the list and ensure the price matches. The original ticket number needs to be entered so the excess ticket has reference to the original fare paid on it. Then select the ticket you want to turn it into from the list. Click calculate. You then charge the difference. There is an option to charge an admin fee but no idea when this would be used.

Doesnt take much longer than just selling a ticket!

 

[LowLevel]

I find it strange how many people particularly in ticket offices want nothing to do with excesses - i do them onboard quite often. Its a straightforward process. You select the type of excess you want - overdistance, single to return, etc. Then search up the customers original ticket exactly as you would when looking to sell any normal ticket. Select the correct ticket from the list and ensure the price matches. The original ticket number needs to be entered so the excess ticket has reference to the original fare paid on it. Then select the ticket you want to turn it into from the list. Click calculate. You then charge the difference. There is an option to charge an admin fee but no idea when this would be used.

Doesnt take much longer than just selling a ticket!

I get the impression that generally, provided you know what you are doing which is by no means a given nowadays, excessing using a mobile TIS is *usually* easier than a booking office one. Certainly I can do it in a few seconds.

The problem nowadays is train guards sell comparatively few tickets and may be well out of practice in how to do things. The same for booking clerks really for some tasks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2026 ==

The easiest thing would have been to buy a return ticket and submit the single for refund, all of which could have been done before you boarded.

Using an established process like an excess fare shouldn't be a chore and when that is an option it seems distinctly un customer friendly to be using a method that generally attracts an admin fee instead.

 

[Kite159]

A guard being able to do excesses depends on how frequent they do it. See similar to when someone gives a guard an RTV or even a Warrant. Some will do it with ease, others will scratch their heads as they try to remember how to do something more complex than a simple sale from A to B.

 

[Haywain]

excessing using a mobile TIS is *usually* easier than a booking office one.

They are often the same TIS in a different setting - certainly the case with TTK and Worldline.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2026 ==

Using an established process like an excess fare shouldn't be a chore and when that is an option it seems distinctly un customer friendly to be using a method that generally attracts an admin fee instead.

No, but the OP's experience is different.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I get the impression that generally, provided you know what you are doing which is by no means a given nowadays, excessing using a mobile TIS is *usually* easier than a booking office one. Certainly I can do it in a few seconds.

The problem nowadays is train guards sell comparatively few tickets and may be well out of practice in how to do things. The same for booking clerks really for some tasks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2026 ==


Using an established process like an excess fare shouldn't be a chore and when that is an option it seems distinctly un customer friendly to be using a method that generally attracts an admin fee instead.

Avocet and Envoy/@station come in both mobile and station versions and are basically the same TIS, fortunately I have no experience of using Star/Star Mobile.

 

[blimmo]

I tried to get an excess at an avanti ticket office (Coventry) a few months ago and similarly was quoted a price with an admin fee and with an incorrect calculation (it was a one direction change of route excess back when you were entitled to them). I complained and after a lot of back and forth got an apology and a promise it wouldn't happen again. I'm not surprised it's happened again. Avanti don't seem to care about their ticket office staff knowing how to sell tickets.

 

[janb]

Avocet and Envoy/@station come in both mobile and station versions and are basically the same TIS, fortunately I have no experience of using Star/Star Mobile.

Can't speak to a comparison of Star Desktop/Star Mobile but for the specific example in Star Desktop there is no "for Dummies" Single to Return excess option, you either a) employ a known workaround which involves a slight tweak to one of the standard excess workflows, or b) construct a 'manual' excess fare from scratch.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Can't speak to a comparison of Star Desktop/Star Mobile but for the specific example in Star Desktop there is no "for Dummies" Single to Return excess option, you either a) employ a known workaround which involves a slight tweak to one of the standard excess workflows, or b) construct a 'manual' excess fare from scratch.

At least on Star Desktop it doesn't try to add a £5/£10 admin fee to the cost of the excess.

 

[samdod2427]

I tried to get an excess at an avanti ticket office (Coventry) a few months ago and similarly was quoted a price with an admin fee and with an incorrect calculation (it was a one direction change of route excess back when you were entitled to them). I complained and after a lot of back and forth got an apology and a promise it wouldn't happen again. I'm not surprised it's happened again. Avanti don't seem to care about their ticket office staff knowing how to sell tickets.

I will also be complaining to Avanti. The problem seems to lie with them and I've had a similar issue at Euston before (back in the days where there was a separate LNR ticket office down by the Overground Platforms). Same day, same question, two wildly different prices from the different ticket offices.