Single Justice Procedure Notice - Govia Thameslink

[Kiki]

Hi, my daughter has received a single justice procedure notice for travelling without a valid railcard (expired). She was told by the guard at the time she would receive something in the post but this is thr first correspondence received and does not give her the opportunity to explain her side, it goes straight to court. There is no address or contact telephone number to call them and explain that she hasn’t received any previous correspondence. Does anyone have a valid email address for Govia Thameslink or their telephone number please? Thank you

 

[SuspectUsual]

Can you post a copy of the documentation (with her details covered) please?

 

[Kiki]

Have attached

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Have attached front sheet

 

[jfollows]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/court-summons-thameslink-for-lost-ticket.277247/#post-7041965 for phone number (reported not to work) and email and address.

If you search this forum for "GTR prosecutions" you find 020 7922 4923(https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-to-address-change.272894/page-5#post-7012738).
If your query is relating to an “Intention to Prosecute letter” we would ask that this is completed and returned to us for consideration.
All matters of appeal should be made in writing to:
Prosecutions Department
Eastside Offices
King’s Cross Railway Station
LONDON
N1C 4AX
If your query is regarding anything else please contact us via email gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com – This mailbox cannot be used to appeal, you will be written to in due course and the response should be made out to the address above. Any appeal sent to the above address will be disregarded and deleted.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, my daughter has received a single justice procedure notice for travelling without a valid railcard (expired). She was told by the guard at the time she would receive something in the post but this is thr first correspondence received and does not give her the opportunity to explain her side, it goes straight to court. There is no address or contact telephone number to call them and explain that she hasn’t received any previous correspondence. Does anyone have a valid email address for Govia Thameslink or their telephone number please? Thank you

just a word of warning - you can not e-mail Thameslink about this (their e-mail address is only used for uploading proof of railcards) and I would not advise trying to ring them (you will not get through to anyone with the ability to make a decision to pause or withdraw the SJPN process in my view) - so you need to write to them. There are other threads with uploads of letters that will have their postal address if you have a look. It's at Kings Cross. EDIT - just seen this is in post #4 for you.

You need the prosecutions / revenue protection and enforcement team - not customer services or another head office address - don't waste time with that as of course you are up against the SJPM notice to try to get them to agree an out of court settlement and withdrawn the SJPN.

You need to be prepared to post hard copy - and I would suggest get that tracked postage so you know it gets there

advice from here will guide you on what you need to say in that letter - or what your daughter needs to say if she is over 18.

It is said on here with other SJPN cases that by pleading not guilty you can buy more time to negotiate an out of court settlement for the incident (but there are down sides to this) - but probably best not to do that until much closer to the deadline it return the SJPN and start asap on trying to resolve it out of court before pleading one way or the other.

I'm assuming this is a case of genuinely forgetting the railcard had expired? If so how long ago was that and how much travel might your daughter have done with Railcard discounted tickets after the expiry date on the Railcard?

 

[some bloke]

GTR normally settle, so unless there's something unusual about the case your daughter seems to have a good/very good chance of sorting this out.

It may be that an earlier letter was lost in the post. If you put a draft on here, people can comment.

Phoning is generally less risky if the person made an innocent mistake, but there's still the risk of saying the wrong thing. So writing can be safer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Another thing to bear in mind if she phones is that they may have obtained her online purchase history, and be curious about whether she's made other journeys with railcard-discounted tickets but no valid railcard.

 

[Kiki]

just a word of warning - you can not e-mail Thameslink about this (their e-mail address is only used for uploading proof of railcards) and I would not advise trying to ring them (you will not get through to anyone with the ability to make a decision to pause or withdraw the SJPN process in my view) - so you need to write to them. There are other threads with uploads of letters that will have their postal address if you have a look. It's at Kings Cross. EDIT - just seen this is in post #4 for you.

You need the prosecutions / revenue protection and enforcement team - not customer services or another head office address - don't waste time with that as of course you are up against the SJPM notice to try to get them to agree an out of court settlement and withdrawn the SJPN.

You need to be prepared to post hard copy - and I would suggest get that tracked postage so you know it gets there

advice from here will guide you on what you need to say in that letter - or what your daughter needs to say if she is over 18.

It is said on here with other SJPN cases that by pleading not guilty you can buy more time to negotiate an out of court settlement for the incident (but there are down sides to this) - but probably best not to do that until much closer to the deadline it return the SJPN and start asap on trying to resolve it out of court before pleading one way or the other.

I'm assuming this is a case of genuinely forgetting the railcard had expired? If so how long ago was that and how much travel might your daughter have done with Railcard discounted tickets after the expiry date on the Railcard?

Thank you, I’m not sure if she has travelled since with discount if the railcard.

just a word of warning - you can not e-mail Thameslink about this (their e-mail address is only used for uploading proof of railcards) and I would not advise trying to ring them (you will not get through to anyone with the ability to make a decision to pause or withdraw the SJPN process in my view) - so you need to write to them. There are other threads with uploads of letters that will have their postal address if you have a look. It's at Kings Cross. EDIT - just seen this is in post #4 for you.

You need the prosecutions / revenue protection and enforcement team - not customer services or another head office address - don't waste time with that as of course you are up against the SJPM notice to try to get them to agree an out of court settlement and withdrawn the SJPN.

You need to be prepared to post hard copy - and I would suggest get that tracked postage so you know it gets there

advice from here will guide you on what you need to say in that letter - or what your daughter needs to say if she is over 18.

It is said on here with other SJPN cases that by pleading not guilty you can buy more time to negotiate an out of court settlement for the incident (but there are down sides to this) - but probably best not to do that until much closer to the deadline it return the SJPN and start asap on trying to resolve it out of court before pleading one way or the other.

I'm assuming this is a case of genuinely forgetting the railcard had expired? If so how long ago was that and how much travel might your daughter have done with Railcard discounted tickets after the expiry date on the Railcard?

just a word of warning - you can not e-mail Thameslink about this (their e-mail address is only used for uploading proof of railcards) and I would not advise trying to ring them (you will not get through to anyone with the ability to make a decision to pause or withdraw the SJPN process in my view) - so you need to write to them. There are other threads with uploads of letters that will have their postal address if you have a look. It's at Kings Cross. EDIT - just seen this is in post #4 for you.

You need the prosecutions / revenue protection and enforcement team - not customer services or another head office address - don't waste time with that as of course you are up against the SJPM notice to try to get them to agree an out of court settlement and withdrawn the SJPN.

You need to be prepared to post hard copy - and I would suggest get that tracked postage so you know it gets there

advice from here will guide you on what you need to say in that letter - or what your daughter needs to say if she is over 18.

It is said on here with other SJPN cases that by pleading not guilty you can buy more time to negotiate an out of court settlement for the incident (but there are down sides to this) - but probably best not to do that until much closer to the deadline it return the SJPN and start asap on trying to resolve it out of court before pleading one way or the other.

I'm assuming this is a case of genuinely forgetting the railcard had expired? If so how long ago was that and how much travel might your daughter have done with Railcard discounted tickets after the expiry date on the Railcard?

Thank you, not sure if she has travelled via train since but will check. She rarely travels by train. It was in July. She also selected the wrong type of railcard when buying the ticket, selecting a 16-25 instead of a disabled railcard which she the railcard she had (expired).
What is the best thing to type in the search bar to see uploads of letters please? Thank you for your help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

GTR normally settle, so unless there's something unusual about the case your daughter seems to have a good/very good chance of sorting this out.

It may be that an earlier letter was lost in the post. If you put a draft on here, people can comment.

Phoning is generally less risky if the person made an innocent mistake, but there's still the risk of saying the wrong thing. So writing can be safer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Another thing to bear in mind if she phones is that they may have obtained her online purchase history, and be curious about whether she's made other journeys with railcard-discounted tickets but no valid railcard.

Thank you. Yes it mist be the case that a previous letter was either never sent or was lost in the post. Us posting a letter securely sounds the best option. I will look up letter ideas on this forum and post one here when done for comments. Many thanks for your help.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, I’m not sure if she has travelled since with discount if the railcard.


Thank you, not sure if she has travelled via train since but will check. She rarely travels by train. It was in July. She also selected the wrong type of railcard when buying the ticket, selecting a 16-25 instead of a disabled railcard which she the railcard she had (expired).
What is the best thing to type in the search bar to see uploads of letters please? Thank you for your help.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==


Thank you. Yes it mist be the case that a previous letter was either never sent or was lost in the post. Us posting a letter securely sounds the best option. I will look up letter ideas on this forum and post one here when done for comments. Many thanks for your help.

OK - thanks for answering - to search to find letters probably 'Thameslink' in the disputes section of the forum you will get a few as they are a big operator and thus have plenty of cases on here - you will need to trawl a few probably.

Ref her Railcard - I would advise renewing the disabled Railcard she is entitled to ASAP even if it is not immediately needed - just because that is then something that can be mentioned when writing to them to show that you 'have taken action to prevent the matter happening again'

I don't regard the wrong Railcard (16-30 instead of Disabled) as being too serious a matter since the railway gives them the same discount - well in some ways a less generous discount for 16-30 although not in terms of the % fare reduction - it's just that you may need to explain why the wrong one was selected.

You need to write to them along lines of

Dear Govia Thamelslink Prosecutions

I have received court paperwork in relation to..... and this was the first communication about the matter following my being questions on X date at Y place by a member of staff

However, I understand that your usual procedure is to contact passengers to establish further details about such incidents, but I have not previously received any communications from you.

The circumstances were.......[be as brief and succinct as possible]

I would like to assure you this was a genuine oversight in failing to realise my Disabled Persons Railcard had expired. I have since renewed it to prevent the problem arising again.

I had no intention to evade any fare.

I would be most grateful if you could consider allowing me to resolve this matter without the need for court action and I would be grateful if you could let me know if this was possible. I would be happy to pay any outstanding fares owed.

I appreciate you will have a busy workload but I would be most grateful for a prompt reply as I am otherwise mindful of the SJPN court paperwork deadline.

Yours faithfully etc

include full name and address, e-mail address, phone number, and any ref numbers on the court paperwork - make it as easy as possible for them to contact you with a view to resolving things

If there was anything genuinely relating to the disability that may have contributed to not renewing the Railcard I guess you could mention it - but the usual advice is that it's not worth telling a sob story.

Put your draft up here if you would like people to check it.

How does she buy tickets? If always from same place on line then her ticket buying account will show how many cases of this have happened since the Railcard expired I would think - sounds like it won't be many.

 

[Kiki]

OK - thanks for answering - to search to find letters probably 'Thameslink' in the disputes section of the forum you will get a few as they are a big operator and thus have plenty of cases on here - you will need to trawl a few probably.

Ref her Railcard - I would advise renewing the disabled Railcard she is entitled to ASAP even if it is not immediately needed - just because that is then something that can be mentioned when writing to them to show that you 'have taken action to prevent the matter happening again'

I don't regard the wrong Railcard (16-30 instead of Disabled) as being too serious a matter since the railway gives them the same discount - well in some ways a less generous discount for 16-30 although not in terms of the % fare reduction - it's just that you may need to explain why the wrong one was selected.

You need to write to them along lines of

Dear Govia Thamelslink Prosecutions

I have received court paperwork in relation to..... and this was the first communication about the matter following my being questions on X date at Y place by a member of staff

However, I understand that your usual procedure is to contact passengers to establish further details about such incidents, but I have not previously received any communications from you.

The circumstances were.......[be as brief and succinct as possible]

I would like to assure you this was a genuine oversight in failing to realise my Disabled Persons Railcard had expired. I have since renewed it to prevent the problem arising again.

I had no intention to evade any fare.

I would be most grateful if you could consider allowing me to resolve this matter without the need for court action and I would be grateful if you could let me know if this was possible. I would be happy to pay any outstanding fares owed.

I appreciate you will have a busy workload but I would be most grateful for a prompt reply as I am otherwise mindful of the SJPN court paperwork deadline.

Yours faithfully etc

include full name and address, e-mail address, phone number, and any ref numbers on the court paperwork - make it as easy as possible for them to contact you with a view to resolving things

If there was anything genuinely relating to the disability that may have contributed to not renewing the Railcard I guess you could mention it - but the usual advice is that it's not worth telling a sob story.

Put your draft up here if you would like people to check it.

How does she buy tickets? If always from same place on line then her ticket buying account will show how many cases of this have happened since the Railcard expired I would think - sounds like it won't be many.

Thank you very much for providing all this info for the letter it is really helpful.
Her disability railcard was on my phone app as I purchased it for her & she usually has a companion travel with her (mostly me) I hadn’t managed to work out how to get it on her phone for her so she didn’t have the information about her railcard anyway.
Any tickets she has purchased have been at the train station machine using her bank card to pay.
I will post letter once done. Many thanks.

 

[Wolfie]

Hi, my daughter has received a single justice procedure notice for travelling without a valid railcard (expired). She was told by the guard at the time she would receive something in the post but this is thr first correspondence received and does not give her the opportunity to explain her side, it goes straight to court. There is no address or contact telephone number to call them and explain that she hasn’t received any previous correspondence. Does anyone have a valid email address for Govia Thameslink or their telephone number please? Thank you

Three questions for clarity:
1. Had your daughter's Railcard (what type - it might matter?) expired (your post implies that but clarity is never a bad thing)?
2. Is your daughter absolutely certain that she gave them the correct address (receipt of the summons suggests so but...)?
3. What was the date of the offence (the train operator has a limited time window to press criminal charges)?

The answers may well help clarify what you do next.

 

[Kiki]

Three questions for clarity:
1. Had your daughter's Railcard (what type - it might matter?) expired (your post implies that but clarity is never a bad thing)?
2. Is your daughter absolutely certain that she gave them the correct address (receipt of the summons suggests so but...)?
3. What was the date of the offence (the train operator has a limited time window to press criminal charges)?

The answers may well help clarify what you do next.

Thanks for your reply.
1) disabled railcard had expired. It was on my phone as I purchased it for her & we hadn’t been able to work out how to get it on her phone also.
2) she definately gave them the correct address and correct phine number which are both listed on the paperwork.
3)the date of the offence was 9th July 2024 & this is the first correspondende received about it.
Many thanks

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you very much for providing all this info for the letter it is really helpful.
Her disability railcard was on my phone app as I purchased it for her & she usually has a companion travel with her (mostly me) I hadn’t managed to work out how to get it on her phone for her so she didn’t have the information about her railcard anyway.
Any tickets she has purchased have been at the train station machine using her bank card to pay.
I will post letter once done. Many thanks.

Thanks - They may track other purchases via the bank card but this is perhaps a bit less likely to happen than with on line purchases I suspect. If they say there are other occasions where they think the correct fare has not been paid you will have to ask them to list them so that you can check your own records of travel and see if your daughter's memory helps verify them (people do ask that sort of question of the train company) but don't worry about that now, cross that bridge in due course.

Key thing is to get the letter off to Thameslink - possibly guaranteed next day delivery when you have it for speed - tho that does cost notably more than just 1st class tracked post.

ref my suggested wording. Might be worth making a clearer apology in it than I did - eg 'I fully apologise for this error on my part'

Good luck with this and head back here for any help and advice you need as things progress.

 

[Wolfie]

Thanks for your reply.
1) disabled railcard had expired. It was on my phone as I purchased it for her & we hadn’t been able to work out how to get it on her phone also.
2) she definately gave them the correct address and correct phine number which are both listed on the paperwork.
3)the date of the offence was 9th July 2024 & this is the first correspondende received about it.
Many thanks

Firstly she is therefore guilty of an absolute liability offence. Her being disabled is something that the train operator should at least take account of though.

Secondly it looks, as some others had previously speculated, that one or more letters have been lost. Contact the company as soon as possible in writing and send it recorded delivery.

Thirdly the company has six months to bring legal charges. After, from their perspective, being ignored for over two thirds of that time their action is logical.

 

[Kiki]

Firstly she is therefore guilty of an absolute liability offence. Her being disabled is something that the train operator should at least take account of though.

Secondly it looks, as some others had previously speculated, that one or more letters have been lost. Contact the company as soon as possible in writing and send it recorded delivery.

Thirdly the company has six months to bring legal charges. After, from their perspective, being ignored for over two thirds of that time their action is logical.

Ok thank you

 

[nomonkeybiz]

Ok thank you

Hello did this get sorted for your daughter?

 

[30907]

Hello did this get sorted for your daughter?

Welcome to the forum. If you need advice please start a new thread (top right).

As the OP hasn't posted for over 4 months they are hardly likely to read your question anyway (and aren't obliged to update the rest of us).

 

[nomonkeybiz]

Welcome to the forum. If you need advice please start a new thread (top right).

As the OP hasn't posted for over 4 months they are hardly likely to read your question anyway (and aren't obliged to update the rest of us).

Thanks for the response