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So, now we have GBR, a bold (speculative?) suggestion:
Have a single booking website for all TOCs that is run by / branded GBR, and remove the booking engine from all TOC websites. Of course, TOC-specific fares should be available, there should be no booking fees, and it would then also be easier for consumers to see the pros / cons of using this rather than alternative booking websites such as the Trainline.
I'm sure plenty of people will be able to tell me this is a bad idea - but would this be at all viable?
I would consider this a good idea - if nothing else it would save on the costs of multiple TOC sites with different contractors. Obviously any private ones wishing to continue can do so.
I would expect it to happen at some point because it's an obvious cost saving, at least for the DfT TOCs. It may not be worth exiting existing contracts due to cancellation fees, though, so I'd expect it to happen fairly slowly.
At various points since GBR was first mooted, shares in Trainline have taken a battering because of the likelihood of what you suggest. It would be a no-brainer for the industry as Trainline can skim off up to *ten percent* of the revenue of a ticket sale in commission!
It's 4.5%, down from 5% at the start of the current financial year, leaving them almost nothing after card fees and ToD/eTicket fees they have to pay. But don't forget Trainline do put their own fees on top of the ticket price (except same day).
It's 4.5%, down from 5% at the start of the current financial year, leaving them almost nothing after card fees and ToD/eTicket fees they have to pay. But don't forget Trainline do put their own fees on top of the ticket price (except same day).
My information is very much out of date but the point still stands. Even if a unified GBR retail offering were to take 10% of Trainline's business on top of what the current fragmented TOC system takes, that's a huge amount of revenue staying within the industry.
It's 4.5%, down from 5% at the start of the current financial year, leaving them almost nothing after card fees and ToD/eTicket fees they have to pay. But don't forget Trainline do put their own fees on top of the ticket price (except same day).
My information is very much out of date but the point still stands. Even if a unified GBR retail offering were to take 10% of Trainline's business on top of what the current fragmented TOC system takes, that's a huge amount of revenue staying within the industry.
You are making the (understandable) mistake of believing that commission "staying within the industry" would result in a commensurate increase in industry profits.
As others have mentioned, when you deduct card processing fees, charges for managing eTicket records in industry databases and the cost of developing and maintaining the software, plus customer service, there isn't a huge profit margin. In fact, that is why most third party retailers charge booking or other fees in some form - it's not profitable otherwise. ToD bookings are particularly unprofitable for smaller transactions due to the comparatively high issuance fees.
Even if you created one central industry retailer, it is highly unlikely to be done in-house because the industry simply doesn't have the technical capability to do so. It will still be outsourced, the same as how gatelines, ticket validation equipment (scanners/apps etc.) and PAYG systems will always be. Even TfL outsource their systems for the Underground, despite having vertical integration.
My information is very much out of date but the point still stands. Even if a unified GBR retail offering were to take 10% of Trainline's business on top of what the current fragmented TOC system takes, that's a huge amount of revenue staying within the industry.
And because TOC's Trainline white label sites don't charge fees on top some could even run at a loss (not for Trainline, for the TOC) especially if they have to pay for a lot of ToD fulfilment. As Watershed just said.
My information is very much out of date but the point still stands. Even if a unified GBR retail offering were to take 10% of Trainline's business on top of what the current fragmented TOC system takes, that's a huge amount of revenue staying within the industry.
Trainline is in the rail industry - just not the nationalised bit.
One possible solution would be for GBR to contract Trainline (or other 3rd party) to provide the "national" booking engine.
The TfW site covers more than rail, and reflects the integrated transport policy in Wales.
Similarly with Merseyrail and other devolved TOCs.
So some independent retail sites will continue to exist.
They also have considerably simpler networks. Irish Rail runs in the region of 650 - 700 services per day (of which around 200 are DART). Whilst over here Northern alone runs in the region of 2,500 services per day.
That being said I'm not sure that GBR should have more than one booking site or at least if it does have more than one it should be reskins rather than entirely separate sites with entirely different feature sets.
Trainline is in the rail industry - just not the nationalised bit.
One possible solution would be for GBR to contract Trainline (or other 3rd party) to provide the "national" booking engine.
The TfW site covers more than rail, and reflects the integrated transport policy in Wales.
Similarly with Merseyrail and other devolved TOCs.
So some independent retail sites will continue to exist.
If I want to book a plane ticket I use the BA , Easyjet or Ryanair sites - if I want book a train ticket it should be via an in-house GBR site. Why should I use a third party supplier and pay a booking fee to boot? The party is over for Trainline.
If I want to book a plane ticket I use the BA , Easyjet or Ryanair sites - if I want book a train ticket it should be via an in-house GBR site. Why should I use a third party supplier and pay a booking fee to boot? The party is over for Trainline.
Trainline now do splits, though, so they can validly claim to be cheaper. Unless the GBR site does (and I doubt the LNER management would want it to) then it will continue to have a role.
So, now we have GBR, a bold (speculative?) suggestion:
Have a single booking website for all TOCs that is run by / branded GBR, and remove the booking engine from all TOC websites. Of course, TOC-specific fares should be available, there should be no booking fees, and it would then also be easier for consumers to see the pros / cons of using this rather than alternative booking websites such as the Trainline.
I'm sure plenty of people will be able to tell me this is a bad idea - but would this be at all viable?
So, now we have GBR, a bold (speculative?) suggestion:
Have a single booking website for all TOCs that is run by / branded GBR, and remove the booking engine from all TOC websites. Of course, TOC-specific fares should be available, there should be no booking fees, and it would then also be easier for consumers to see the pros / cons of using this rather than alternative booking websites such as the Trainline.
I'm sure plenty of people will be able to tell me this is a bad idea - but would this be at all viable?
Trainline now do splits, though, so they can validly claim to be cheaper. Unless the GBR site does (and I doubt the LNER management would want it to) then it will continue to have a role.
If I want to book a plane ticket I use the BA , Easyjet or Ryanair sites - if I want book a train ticket it should be via an in-house GBR site. Why should I use a third party supplier and pay a booking fee to boot? The party is over for Trainline.
I predict an increase in third party sales if all TOC sites are replaced by a single site.
Trainline will still be cheaper in many cases, as there is no way DfT is going to allow splits to be proactively offered by any site within their remit.
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Trainline will certainly be among the favourites to provide any such GBR site.
Given RDG's track record and lack of skills/knowledge, the idea of anything being done 'in house' has to be considered fanciful; any such site is clearly going to be operated by a third party. The question is: who?
I think the assumption around the OP's question is fundamentally misconceived. By focusing on ownership and control, those supporting a monopoly provider completely miss the significance of the way that external retailers (yes, including Trainline) have helped and continue to improve railway ticketing. That includes individual operators having their own retail operation, and customising them with their specific markets in mind.
I think the assumption around the OP's question is fundamentally misconceived. By focusing on ownership and control, those supporting a monopoly provider completely miss the significance of the way that external retailers (yes, including Trainline) have helped and continue to improve railway ticketing. That includes individual operators having their own retail operation, and customising them with their specific markets in mind.
I also think the quote posted in the original post (by @Bletchleyite) is very wide of the mark; I see no evidence for this and I think it's just a pure guess.
Trainline now do splits, though, so they can validly claim to be cheaper. Unless the GBR site does (and I doubt the LNER management would want it to) then it will continue to have a role.
Yes, but GBR will eventually be a unified railway with no TOC specific fares and, hopefully, a wholesale simplification of the frankly ludicrous current situation.
Trainline big advantage is the UI, and though some booking services have improved a lot (Trainsplit is great).
Trainline still has the nicer app to use, it's an easy one-stop-shop that is nice on the eyes and on the usability.
Most public transport booking engines even in Europe don't have that and are dreadful to use. Though there are exception with SBB, and OBB (of the top of my head)
Yes, but GBR will eventually be a unified railway with no TOC specific fares and, hopefully, a wholesale simplification of the frankly ludicrous current situation.
Yes, but GBR will eventually be a unified railway with no TOC specific fares and, hopefully, a wholesale simplification of the frankly ludicrous current situation.
Do you have a copy of the plans, or are we guessing?
I'm not convinced there won't be any sort of price difference for the faster (currently Avanti-operated) services on the West Coast Mainline and the slower (currently WMT operated) services.
Maybe your assumption is that there will not be any walk-ups, other than the Anytime fare (currently £148.50 from Crewe to London) and the only way they will be differentiated is by Advance fares, on the basis that LNER's "trial" is considered "successful", but I don't think that is guaranteed at this point.
However, it's best discussed in a separate topic.
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Most public transport booking engines even in Europe don't have that and are dreadful to use. Though there are exception with SBB, and OBB (of the top of my head)
It’s the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So the question is whether NI rail services are in scope of this unified ticket seller, or just those within Great Britain. Further would the devolved services of Scotrail and TfW be included or solely those to be run by GBR?
It’s the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So the question is whether NI rail services are in scope of this unified ticket seller, or just those within Great Britain. Further would the devolved services of Scotrail and TfW be included or solely those to be run by GBR?
ah - oops, I assumed the discrepancy was something to do with different railway companies rather than the geographical distinction (which given my job I definitely should know about!)
Why? There is no reason GBR can't design its own system - there might even be ex- Trainline employees looking for jobs. The current complexity will no longer be required in a unified railway - that's the whole point!
I also think the quote posted in the original post (by @Bletchleyite) is very wide of the mark; I see no evidence for this and I think it's just a pure guess.
On this, I think @Bletchleyite is more right than you would like to own. I find it very common for colleagues, friends, and family to believe that (like airlines) operator websites will only sell their own tickets and therefore to think that they need to buy elsewhere for anything else. That then favours Trainline, because it has the brand recognition as an independent retailer.
Why? There is no reason GBR can't design its own system - there might even be ex- Trainline employees looking for jobs. The current complexity will no longer be required in a unified railway - that's the whole point!
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