Silly question about Metrolink and Points on License...

[BPX]

Hi all, hate to admit the embarassment and silly mistake, but I managed to end up with 6pts on my license (nothing to do with speeding or drinking etc.) which came live after I had my interview and final assessment (after license checks too) with Metrolink.

I understand I probably won't get the offer now as the requirements (for insurance purposes obviously) is 3 points maximum.

However, my question is; has there been any exceptions that people have kept their job or is there a possiblity of paying the extra premium or taking a salary cut due to having points above the maximum stated?

In the end it's probably a lengthy 4-5yr wait until I'm able to apply on light rail again lesson learnt eitherway that to double check my renewal actually went through before driving.

Many thanks.

 

[Class2ldn]

Sorry mate but I dont think they'll make any exceptions like that, if you're over the threshold then I would think they'll pull your job offer. If they do it for you they'd have to do it for everyone and then there's no point having restrictions on points.

 

[BPX]

Sorry mate but I dont think they'll make any exceptions like that, if you're over the threshold then I would think they'll pull your job offer. If they do it for you they'd have to do it for everyone and then there's no point having restrictions on points.

Thanks for the info pal, appreciate it. Hard pill to swallow but it is what it is. Edinburgh were the same about it so don't think they'll be any different in Manchester.

 

[Class2ldn]

No I doubt it , always worth checking though

 

[Neatro]

If you've not had your job offer they'll probably pull it.

But points come off after 3 years but stay active for 4 even though nothing happens with them. So you can always apply again once they're off.

Best to just talk to them about it really as it might depend on what your points are for

 

[BPX]

If you've not had your job offer they'll probably pull it.

But points come off after 3 years but stay active for 4 even though nothing happens with them. So you can always apply again once they're off.

Best to just talk to them about it really as it might depend on what your points are for

Yeah most likely the offer pull. I haven't had anything yet as I believe there's one last assessment next week.

I'll email their recruitment team Monday. I emailed Edinburgh's explaining the situation and told them it was purely because of having no insurance, they still withdrew my offer with no other option.

I understand it's all to do with insurance which is no issue. I'm just incredibly devastated having spent so much money and time travelling up and down the country to interviews only to have gotten the offer and it being withdrawn definitely the most unluckiest bloke alive.

 

[Watershed]

Yeah most likely the offer pull. I haven't had anything yet as I believe there's one last assessment next week.

I'll email their recruitment team Monday. I emailed Edinburgh's explaining the situation and told them it was purely because of having no insurance, they still withdrew my offer with no other option.

I understand it's all to do with insurance which is no issue. I'm just incredibly devastated having spent so much money and time travelling up and down the country to interviews only to have gotten the offer and it being withdrawn definitely the most unluckiest bloke alive.

With respect, no insurance sounds like an offence you've committed that's entirely your responsibility. Everyone knows you have to make sure you've got insurance before you drive. As such I'm not entirely sure I could agree you were the unluckiest bloke alive.

But then again, there might be more to this story than meets the eye. Perhaps you were driving someone else's car and they told you you were a named driver, but it turned out you weren't. Or maybe you weren't properly informed that a policy was cancelled.

All this being said, I'm sure you can appreciate that these limits exist for a reason; 6 points either means one more serious offence or two minor ones. That's something that would suggest you're probably at higher risk of making a mistake, and so it's understandable albeit unfortunate that most tram operators won't want to take you on.

 

[ComUtoR]

With respect, no insurance sounds like an offence you've committed that's entirely your responsibility. Everyone knows you have to make sure you've got insurance before you drive. As such I'm not entirely sure I could agree you were the unluckiest bloke alive.

Insurance, like many things, is easily forgotten.

 

[Watershed]

Insurance, like many things, is easily forgotten.

Perhaps. But forgetting such an important thing in your personal life could be taken as an indication that you'd also forget important tasks at work. Not exactly the impression you want to be making!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Perhaps. But forgetting such an important thing in your personal life could be taken as an indication that you'd also forget important tasks at work. Not exactly the impression you want to be making!

I’m reading this as the tram operators’ insurance policy will not cover drivers with more than three points rather than the OP having committed an offence of no insurance.

 

[Neatro]

Perhaps. But forgetting such an important thing in your personal life could be taken as an indication that you'd also forget important tasks at work. Not exactly the impression you want to be making!

Nothing to do with that. Metrolink runs on roads so you need a licence and they have a limit to starting points.

Obviously the higher the points the more likely you might end up losing your licence and then you can't drive for them for 6 months.

 

[43066]

Perhaps. But forgetting such an important thing in your personal life could be taken as an indication that you'd also forget important tasks at work. Not exactly the impression you want to be making!

Completely agree. It doesn’t exactly smack of someone who could be trusted to do a responsible job. A learning point for the OP - although, ironically, this wouldn’t be a bar to train driving, as there’s no requirement to hold a car license (other than for some FOCs).

EDIT: it isn’t 100% clear from the OP whether an offence of no insurance has led to the points.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have had a car insurance issue due to the insurer screwing up and not properly creating the policy (back when online sales were new and probably just chucked a sheet of paper on a printer for them to set up manually and post docs). Had I driven and been caught while the policy was not actually set up I would have been committing an offence despite me believing in good faith a policy existed. It might have been possible if I went to court to ask for a reduced punishment on these grounds but I suspect I'd still have got the points, perhaps just a small or no fine.

So not necessarily the car owner's fault.

 

[BPX]

My motoring offence was for having no car insurance. I'm sure one mistake like this, in my view, having driven for over 8 years isn't really appropriate to having 4/5yrs of my career being taken away from me. I understand the severity of it, I'm embarrassed that a simple mistake has led to this costly devastation, but having been a tram driver before with a proven track record, it would be unfair marking me as someone who'd be unreliable in a job I've been brilliant at.

 

[Watershed]

I'm sure one mistake like this, in my view, having driven for over 8 years isn't really appropriate to having 4/5yrs of my career being taken away from me.

You're not in prison though. You can work for other employers or even in the tram industry in other jobs.

I appreciate it may feel harsh but how many other millions of drivers manage to go 8 years without getting 6 points on their licence, let alone 3?

 

[BPX]

You're not in prison though. You can work for other employers or even in the tram industry in other jobs.

I appreciate it may feel harsh but how many other millions of drivers manage to go 8 years without getting 6 points on their licence, let alone 3?

I appreciate the initial response on the thread. But your further input doesn't really help, and I can only apologise for not being perfect and making a mistake.

Judging by your response I really do hope, however old you are, that you've never had a point in your life and mistakes made have been next to none.

 

[Watershed]

I appreciate the initial response on the thread. But your further input doesn't really help, and I can only apologise for not being perfect and making a mistake.

Judging by your response I really do hope, however old you are, that you've never had a point in your life and mistakes made have been next to none.

I'm trying to help by explaining why the tram operators have the policies they do. I'm not judging you; everyone makes mistakes - but when it comes to something as important as car insurance, you can't expect to be treated the same as someone who hasn't made a mistake.

 

[LRV3004]

As a former Metrolink driver I should have known this already really, but after a quick Google search I came across this……

 

[craigybagel]

Nothing to do with that. Metrolink runs on roads so you need a licence and they have a limit to starting points.

Obviously the higher the points the more likely you might end up losing your licence and then you can't drive for them for 6 months.

I'm sure there was a thread on this a few years ago, where nobody could show there was an actual legal requirement to possess a valid driving licence to drive a tram? Metrolink require it themselves so it's something of a moot point of course, but an interesting legal situation none the less.

 

[Class2ldn]

Irrelevant whether its a legal point or not tbf, if the company want you to have one then thats their perogative. If you don't meet the company requirements then you won't get taken on whatever the reason they require it.

 

[Neatro]

I'm sure there was a thread on this a few years ago, where nobody could show there was an actual legal requirement to possess a valid driving licence to drive a tram? Metrolink require it themselves so it's something of a moot point of course, but an interesting legal situation none the less.

You need it for Metrolink because about 50% of the network runs on roads, with the requirement to sometimes abide by the highway code in certain failed signal situations.

Other tram networks I don't know but I know why they need it for Metrolink plus as I said they choose a lower points so if you did get more you'd still be able to drive before 12 points

 

[craigybagel]

Irrelevant whether its a legal point or not tbf, if the company want you to have one then thats their perogative. If you don't meet the company requirements then you won't get taken on whatever the reason they require it.

That is true, and even if there was no requirement for a diving licence in the role it can still be a useful tool for weeding out candidates all the same.

You need it for Metrolink because about 50% of the network runs on roads, with the requirement to sometimes abide by the highway code in certain failed signal situations.

Other tram networks I don't know but I know why they need it for Metrolink plus as I said they choose a lower points so if you did get more you'd still be able to drive before 12 points

But is it a Metrolink requirement or something actually set down in law? If you drove a tram on one of the on street sections without a driving licence, could you be prosecuted?

 

[LRV3004]

I'm sure there was a thread on this a few years ago, where nobody could show there was an actual legal requirement to possess a valid driving licence to drive a tram? Metrolink require it themselves so it's something of a moot point of course, but an interesting legal situation none the less.

All explained in this link: https://nationalcareers.service.gov...ll usually need a,useful but is not essential.
This snippet was also in said link:

 

[Neatro]

That is true, and even if there was no requirement for a diving licence in the role it can still be a useful tool for weeding out candidates all the same.

But is it a Metrolink requirement or something actually set down in law? If you drove a tram on one of the on street sections without a driving licence, could you be prosecuted?

You need one.

any tram operator if you lose your licence you can't drive or lose your job with them (depending on how long you're suspended)

As I'm pretty sure you need a licence to operate any motorised vehicle on public roads.

 

[greatkingrat]

Tramcars and Trolley Vehicles (Modification of Enactments) Regulations 1992

8. Section 87 of the 1988 Act (drivers of motor vehicles to have driving licences) shall apply to tramcars as if after subsection (2) there were added the following subsections—
“(3) A licence authorising a person to drive a motor vehicle in category B within the meaning of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1987(1), shall be regarded as authorising that person to drive a tramcar.
(4) Notwithstanding subsection (1) above, a person may drive or cause or permit another person to drive a tramcar if the driver was employed on duties which required the driving of tramcars on a road at any time during the one year period ending immediately before 1st July 1992.”

So new drivers are legally required to have a license, but it is at least theoretically possible that there could be a pre-1992 driver without a license who is still employed.

 

[craigybagel]

Tramcars and Trolley Vehicles (Modification of Enactments) Regulations 1992

8. Section 87 of the 1988 Act (drivers of motor vehicles to have driving licences) shall apply to tramcars as if after subsection (2) there were added the following subsections—
“(3) A licence authorising a person to drive a motor vehicle in category B within the meaning of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1987(1), shall be regarded as authorising that person to drive a tramcar.
(4) Notwithstanding subsection (1) above, a person may drive or cause or permit another person to drive a tramcar if the driver was employed on duties which required the driving of tramcars on a road at any time during the one year period ending immediately before 1st July 1992.”

So new drivers are legally required to have a license, but it is at least theoretically possible that there could be a pre-1992 driver without a license who is still employed.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for - the official position in law rather than company specific policy.

 

[BPX]

I also went for a job in Nottingham recently to drive trams, given Comms to say I was OK with 6pts (eligible for the role still and within their minimum requirements) to attend for the interview and assessments, only to be rejected next day because I have 6pts.

 

[william.martin]

No I doubt it , always worth checking though

If you never try, you never get

 

[BPX]

If you never try, you never get

Well I gave it a try and judging by someone in a different thread, they had gotten a call from Metrolink to say they've got the role. Unfortunately, I didn't get it so I can only assume I've been rejected based on the points and whatever other reasons. Gave it a go eitherway! Definitely a pat on the back for getting to the final stages.