SignalMaps.co.uk Vs Freight

[GB]

Looking at Signalmaps.co.uk and I have seen at least 4 (non GBRF) freights with proper headcodes. There was a 4L36 earlier, there is a 4L48 currently on the NLL and a 4S83 and 4Z60 on the LTS. Are freights now unobscured on signalmaps as they still are obscured on OTT?

 

[Peter0124]

Most of the freight headcodes on railcam diagrams are unobscured.

 

[Tom]

There is a new open data platform (meant to launch today) which has little to no obfuscation in a real-time world. You'll see a number of sites migrate to using that platform in due course.

 

[GB]

There is a new open data platform (meant to launch today) which has little to no obfuscation in a real-time world. You'll see a number of sites migrate to using that platform in due course.

Good stuff thanks!

 

[martin2345uk]

There is a new open data platform (meant to launch today) which has little to no obfuscation in a real-time world. You'll see a number of sites migrate to using that platform in due course.

Don you think it's likely that OpenTrainTimes maps will also be migrating to use the unscrambled source? That would make things so much easier for my job haha

 

[Tom]

We all will, eventually.

 

[martin2345uk]

Great news, thanks!

 

[XCTurbostar]

There is a new open data platform (meant to launch today) which has little to no obfuscation in a real-time world. You'll see a number of sites migrate to using that platform in due course.

It makes sense to un obfuscate them. Anyone with a brain could find out the actual headcode if you ask in the right place.

I’m not 100% sure why it was ever considered necessary, surely hiding the actual schedule would be more effective?

 

[jfollows]

It makes sense to un obfuscate them. Anyone with a brain could find out the actual headcode if you ask in the right place.

I’m not 100% sure why it was ever considered necessary, surely hiding the actual schedule would be more effective?

I agree, I presume "someone" thought it might be a good idea once and the decision has stuck.
It's easy, but annoying, unscrambling them - I cross-reference with the working timetable but it takes time to find the correct page in the correct timetable and then the correct train.
It's good news that I soon won't have to mess around like this any more.

 

[Freightmaster]

Most of the freight headcodes on railcam diagrams are unobscured.

For info, that is all done manually (by me!) - fairly easy to do for WTT services which use
the same schedules from week to week, but one off STP movements such as track machines,
weekend engineering trains and RoG stock moves are a nightmare to keep up with!




MARK

 

[trainmania100]

We all will, eventually.

Is this the "Rail Data Marketplace" that I have heard about?

 

[Tom]

No. This is a solely NR product and is available (currently) to a select few for production testing/evaluation, and then will be rolling out to all on the current platform in a few months at a guess.

I agree, I presume "someone" thought it might be a good idea once and the decision has stuck.
It's easy, but annoying, unscrambling them - I cross-reference with the working timetable but it takes time to find the correct page in the correct timetable and then the correct train.
It's good news that I soon won't have to mess around like this any more.

We're talking about decisions made in 2011/2012 at the early points of the open data culture in the industry and plenty of worries amongst commercial nature of some operators. Time has indeed moved on - and also I don't think the supplier can recreate the old obfuscation system either as the person responsible for it has left...

 

[trainmania100]

No. This is a solely NR product and is available (currently) to a select few for production testing/evaluation, and then will be rolling out to all on the current platform in a few months at a guess.

Thanks for clarifying. Its all a bit quiet and unless you're in the know, and I wouldn't know where to look. Wasnt planning on more development work for my own setup as i've just started a new project lol

I agree with other people that obfuscation isnt really necesary any more. I see TOPS lists posted online whos which terminals seem to be able to access the locations of every freight operator's locomotives and workings, tiplocs like "Valley Nuclear Electric" arent exactly obfuscating the presence of a nuclear site , and often wondered to myself why make the effort, when these dates, a headcode is just the same as an origin and destination

 

[XCTurbostar]

For info, that is all done manually (by me!) - fairly easy to do for WTT services which use
the same schedules from week to week, but one off STP movements such as track machines,
weekend engineering trains and RoG stock moves are a nightmare to keep up with!
MARK

I fully appreciate everything you do to keep up with it all Mark. It shouldn’t be that painful!

Time has indeed moved on - and also I don't think the supplier can recreate the old obfuscation system either as the person responsible for it has left...

Wouldn’t it be possible to just substitute ZZZZ in place of headcodes and use service codes and UIDs instead? I find it hard to believe that masking headcodes was the best way to commercially protect their businesses when the schedules show origins and destinations. Only 3 characters of the actual headcode are obfuscated anyway.

 

[Tom]

There was a reasonably good argument in balancing the needs of the commercial operators while also maintaining a level of openness. When the open data portal first came out, freight trains literally were hidden behind ???? but that changed a few months after it was opened up after it was decided it was okay. Either way, that boat sailed long ago and no point going over those debates again.

 

[trebor79]

I fully appreciate everything you do to keep up with it all Mark. It shouldn’t be that painful!


Wouldn’t it be possible to just substitute ZZZZ in place of headcodes and use service codes and UIDs instead? I find it hard to believe that masking headcodes was the best way to commercially protect their businesses when the schedules show origins and destinations. Only 3 characters of the actual headcode are obfuscated anyway.

But then you wouldn't have unique headcodes to find the right schedule. That sort of thing could only be done by RTT or whoever is using the data. If you're going to obfuscate, it has to be done before you release data into the wild.
I agree it seems a bit silly and pointless in this case though.