Signalling staff shortages at Paddington

[t_packer]

Lack of signalling staff on evenings at Paddington feels like a recurring nightmare now! Does anyone know exactly how this affects services? I’m currently on a TfL Rail train to Maidenhead and we’ve been stopped at Southall for 25 minutes owing to signalling problems - train left late too?

Given there’s absolutely no acknowledgement, explanation or apology from GWR, TfL or Network Rail about this recurring problem, I thought I’d pick the brains of the forum!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Last Saturday 23rd everything in and out of Paddington was suspended for a while until just before 09.30 for the same reason - signalling staff sick.

Four weeks earlier on 26th March there was a two hour suspension of the entire Berks and Hants between Reading and Westbury from about 09.00 to 11.00 for the same reason.

 

[800 Driver]

This has been going on for weeks and apparently will continue for months. They are about 10 signallers short at TVSC. Will take ages to train that many people n the routes they need to know.

 

[Horizon22]

This has been going on since Covid sporadically but is very acute right now. Most days there are not enough staff in TVSC for Link 1 (Paddington - West Drayton), Link 2 (Slough - Reading) or Link 3 (Newbury / Didcot / Oxford) [feel free to correct the link locations]. Normally there’s no meal break available which means 30 minute closure all at once than different desks shutting 30 mins at a time. The preferred times on nights are 0200-0230 but occasionally it’s 2200-2230 and in the day it’s usually around 1000-1030 but obviously there’s no ideal time and in the day that sort of closure will knock on for ~2 hours and trains are cancelled / held down the line in a platform or terminated short.

They are desperately short or signallers this is due to sickness, vacancies (both ongoing and repeat due to people starting and leaving); they’re looking for Grade 7/8/9 signallers right now which correspond to Link 3/2/1 respectively I believe).

I believe it is being explained by “a shortage of signalling staff” but obviously on board it might be more sporadic - no doubt because if the driver hasn’t been informed beforehand there’s no signaller to call to ask why delayed! There’s only so much GWR/TfL Rail can do other than plan for the disruption.

 

[danielcanning]

This has been going on since Covid sporadically but is very acute right now. Most days there are not enough staff in TVSC for Link 1 (Paddington - West Drayton), Link 2 (Slough - Reading) or Link 3 (Newbury / Didcot / Oxford) [feel free to correct the link locations]. Normally there’s no meal break available which means 30 minute closure all at once than different desks shutting 30 mins at a time. The preferred times on nights are 0200-0230 but occasionally it’s 2200-2230 and in the day it’s usually around 1000-1030 but obviously there’s no ideal time and in the day that sort of closure will knock on for ~2 hours and trains are cancelled / held down the line in a platform or terminated short.

They are desperately short or signallers this is due to sickness, vacancies (both ongoing and repeat due to people starting and leaving); they’re looking for Grade 7/8/9 signallers right now which correspond to Link 3/2/1 respectively I believe).

I believe it is being explained by “a shortage of signalling staff” but obviously on board it might be more sporadic - no doubt because if the driver hasn’t been informed beforehand there’s no signaller to call to ask why delayed! There’s only so much GWR/TfL Rail can do other than plan for the disruption.

I think the government seriously need to consider calling the army in. Don’t they have a railways regiment?

 

[Spartacus]

I think the government seriously need to consider calling the army in. Don’t they have a railways regiment?

Trying to keep a straight face, but no, the Government isn't going to call in the army due to a few delayed trains, and I'd very much doubt any would be passed out on the relevant panels, but I don't think the army has any railway operational capability any more anyway.

 

[michael74]

I think the government seriously need to consider calling the army in. Don’t they have a railways regiment?

Apart from the fact the last vestiges of the British Army's own railway capability was disbanded in 2014 (275 Railway Troop), they were depot & railhead operators not mainline operators. And as @Spartacus says, you can't just parachute (see what I did there) someone into a box and tell them to get on with it. Also I spent 10 years in the Army, I can say with confidence if you did it could only go well....

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I’ve said it before, there’s an ARMY of Simsig enthusiasts online just waiting for the call for help.

(Note - I’m joking )

 

[Table 52]

I’ve said it before, there’s an ARMY of Simsig enthusiasts online just waiting for the call for help.

(Note - I’m joking )

“Sorry, I just want to pop to the loo, but I can’t find the pause button anywhere on this panel”

 

[JN114]

I’ve said it before, there’s an ARMY of Simsig enthusiasts online just waiting for the call for help.

(Note - I’m joking )

They can also now train themselves up on the recently released Slough Simulation [/plug]

 

[sw1ller]

Happened in Shrewsbury over Easter. Singnaller demanded £1000 a day to come in. I’m in the wrong job me!!

 

[baz962]

Happened in Shrewsbury over Easter. Singnaller demanded £1000 a day to come in. I’m in the wrong job me!!

Did they get it though

 

[Dunnideer]

Happened in Shrewsbury over Easter. Singnaller demanded £1000 a day to come in. I’m in the wrong job me!!

Signallers aren't in a position to 'demand' any sort of payment like that. They are paid a set rate (according to their grade and hours worked) for a Rest Day Working and it's take it or leave it. Sounds like the usual exaggerated railway rumour mill silliness.

 

[LowLevel]

Signallers aren't in a position to 'demand' any sort of payment like that. They are paid a set rate (according to their grade and hours worked) for a Rest Day Working and it's take it or leave it.

So are traincrew but it's been amazing to see over the years how things can be bent. Rest day work plus 3 hours over time every day for a week and things like that. Doesn't really happen now but pre COVID it was rife.

 

[GB]

Signallers aren't in a position to 'demand' any sort of payment like that. They are paid a set rate (according to their grade and hours worked) for a Rest Day Working and it's take it or leave it. Sounds like the usual exaggerated railway rumour mill silliness.

You can demand what you like, even more so when that crud has hit the fan and you are the last one to be called…whether you get what you demand is another matter.

 

[matt_world2004]

Signallers aren't in a position to 'demand' any sort of payment like that. They are paid a set rate (according to their grade and hours worked) for a Rest Day Working and it's take it or leave it. Sounds like the usual exaggerated railway rumour mill silliness.

I suppose they could say. "I would come in if you pay me £1000" even if that is not their set rate for working outside contracted hours.

The reality of such a demand though is usually they don't want to come in . So name a obscenely high price to come in. Kind of like what Amazon does with products that are out of stock or the rail industry does with tickets they don't want you to buy

 

[Horizon22]

I think the government seriously need to consider calling the army in. Don’t they have a railways regiment?

Um what? A bunch of completely unqualified individuals trying to route trains around? What could possibly go wrong.

*And no they don’t have a “railways regiment”

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2022 ==

Signallers aren't in a position to 'demand' any sort of payment like that. They are paid a set rate (according to their grade and hours worked) for a Rest Day Working and it's take it or leave it. Sounds like the usual exaggerated railway rumour mill silliness.

But if they are so desperate that the railway would literally close otherwise, it might have been approved by senior management although seems unlikely. Would probably cost less than the delay costs!

 

[philthetube]

I suspect that a signaller saying that would be actually saying no without using the word, they would be shocked if they got it.

Not saying where but I did know of a case where a driver, who NEVER did overtime was once asked to do an hour and said that he would if he was paid 8 hours to do it, phone call to the top and he got it.

 

[43066]

So are traincrew but it's been amazing to see over the years how things can be bent. Rest day work plus 3 hours over time every day for a week and things like that. Doesn't really happen now but pre COVID it was rife.

I’ve certainly not heard of overtime everyday for a week being offered (if I understood that right), but things like agreeing to come in for a job starting earlier with only a day’s notice in exchange for being paid 12 hours (so a few hours on top of the booked job) certainly still happen.

Makes perfect sense really as it’s a lot cheaper than cancelling trains and saves using up a standby.

 

[66701GBRF]

A 12hr shift is probably around £400 depending on grade, so £1000 is not much more than double time…again depending on grade, so I don’t think the figure is quite as extreme as some might think.

 

[Dunnideer]

But if they are so desperate that the railway would literally close otherwise, it might have been approved by senior management although seems unlikely. Would probably cost less than the delay costs!

There’s no mechanism to pay them a cash bonus like that though, the payroll dept would have to put it through as hours on the roster which has implications for Hidden and tax. Agreed the cost of the delays from having a workstation closed would dwarf any payment made to cover a shift but that money comes out a different pot.

A 12hr shift is probably around £400 depending on grade, so £1000 is not much more than double time…again depending on grade, so I don’t think the figure is quite as extreme as some might think.

A normal 12hr shift for a grade 9 (not sure what grade TVSC is but that’s the highest signaller grade) is £319.10 and Rest Days Worked are paid at time and a quarter which would be £398.88. So to get up to a cool Grand would need them to be put down for about 32 hours on the roster. More if the grade is below 9 and that’s also all before tax.

In my opinion there’s no way the company would be paying signallers a bounty above and beyond the usual RDW rate. The union wouldn’t have it for one thing. It seems more like a throw away jokey remark that’s been taken seriously. If they have been then they’d better hope it doesn’t catch on or things will get very expensive very quickly.

 

[GB]

What power would a union have though? As far as I am concerned my time is my time and I can put what ever value I like on it. Doesn't mean the company are obliged to take up the offer but still..

 

[philthetube]

There’s no mechanism to pay them a cash bonus like that though, the payroll dept would have to put it through as hours on the roster which has implications for Hidden and tax. Agreed the cost of the delays from having a workstation closed would dwarf any payment made to cover a shift but that money comes out a different pot.



A normal 12hr shift for a grade 9 (not sure what grade TVSC is but that’s the highest signaller grade) is £319.10 and Rest Days Worked are paid at time and a quarter which would be £398.88. So to get up to a cool Grand would need them to be put down for about 32 hours on the roster. More if the grade is below 9 and that’s also all before tax.

In my opinion there’s no way the company would be paying signallers a bounty above and beyond the usual RDW rate. The union wouldn’t have it for one thing. It seems more like a throw away jokey remark that’s been taken seriously. If they have been then they’d better hope it doesn’t catch on or things will get very expensive very quickly.

If I managed to negotiate something like that for myself the last people to know would be the union.

 

[Spartacus]

What power would a union have though? As far as I am concerned my time is my time and I can put what ever value I like on it. Doesn't mean the company are obliged to take up the offer but still..

That if (and it's a VERY big if) they're willing to per one person £1000 then there's no good reason everyone shouldn't get £1000 for the same thing.

 

[High Dyke]

Happened in Shrewsbury over Easter. Singnaller demanded £1000 a day to come in. I’m in the wrong job me!!

Do you have a link to show this please? Not heard of that.

That if (and it's a VERY big if) they're willing to per one person £1000 then there's no good reason everyone shouldn't get £1000 for the same thing.

Seemingly Network Rail management don't have any money for a staff payrise, unless they're able to make efficiency savings through modernisation. Or reading between the line: cuts in staff numbers - mainly affecting maintenance colleagues.

 

[Dunnideer]

If I managed to negotiate something like that for myself the last people to know would be the union.

That if (and it's a VERY big if) they're willing to per one person £1000 then there's no good reason everyone shouldn't get £1000 for the same thing.

Yes exactly!

 

[43066]

That if (and it's a VERY big if) they're willing to per one person £1000 then there's no good reason everyone shouldn't get £1000 for the same thing.

Don’t ask, don’t get?

 

[GB]

That if (and it's a VERY big if) they're willing to per one person £1000 then there's no good reason everyone shouldn't get £1000 for the same thing.

There is a difference in that being in such a position to ask for £1000 is such a rarity that it probably happens once in a blue moon and probably once in a signaller's career. Bit different to paying genuinely rostered RDW like that. If other's do feel aggrieved then there is nothing stopping them doing something similar.

We don't know the specifics of this situation, it could have been he was the last hope, phoned with 30 minutes notice and maybe had to drop whatever he was doing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2022 ==

Don’t ask, don’t get?

This ^

 

[Dunnideer]

Might as well ask for the moon on a stick. You would have as much chance of getting it.

 

[Sunset route]

I’m early Railtrack days just after the signallers restructuring agreement you could certainly name your price to keep the railway open in our area due to way to many vacancies.