Signalling failure Rugby/MKC

[miami]

A statement "we can't put on replacement buses as we can't get any, but we have arranged taxi services, please be aware there may be a lengthy wait" would be more honest than "it can't be done"

 

[absolutelymilk]

Any more updates on the situation at the moment? Are things getting back to normal?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A statement "we can't put on replacement buses as we can't get any, but we have arranged taxi services, please be aware there may be a lengthy wait" would be more honest than "it can't be done"

This, precisely this.

Whatever has been arranged or not arranged, it should be described accurately and honestly including truthful reasoning.

If the truthful reasoning sounds silly, it probably is (i.e. providing nothing to Wolverton unless the reason is that no buses are available at all, which I doubt).

 

[nuneatonmark]

Getting a bit better but nowhere near back to normal. LM are completely screwed, most Virgin trains are late or cancelled. Currently on the 30 min delayed 1543 from Euston to Glasgow, hoping to catch the 1742 from Cov to Nuneaton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any more updates on the situation at the moment? Are things getting back to normal?

Still as before. I imagine the crowds are now building at Euston.

LM seem to have no proper contingency plans as usual, and have failed to make them over the past few hours. Now Euston and MKC are going to be full of unhappy Northampton passengers. Action is needed.

 

[Simon11]

Im finally nearly at euston after our virgin train from Manchester terminated at watford junction due to a lack of platforms at euston. I fail to understand why this is an issue after the incident happed hours ago, giving time to get rid of this stock since they have a reduced service. Where are all the drivers considering there if a far reduced service and they've had hours to draft in extra drivers if they thought it would be needed.

We slowed down at the flood area, but I couldn't see any water on the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently services have now been reinstated to Wolverton and Northampton.

I found this out from the local rag's website; LM it seems cannot yet be bothered to properly update their website.

 

[All Line Rover]

Currently on the 10-car 17:03 MKC to EUS (ex. Chester) which is racing the 17:00 MKC to EUS (ex. Birmingham). The latter is rammed (11-cars and yet every carriage still has passengers standing in the aisles and gangways), but I've had a surprisingly pleasant journey in the quiet coach on the Voyager.

 

[The Planner]

Im finally nearly at euston after our virgin train from Manchester terminated at watford junction due to a lack of platforms at euston. I fail to understand why this is an issue after the incident happed hours ago, giving time to get rid of this stock since they have a reduced service. Where are all the drivers considering there if a far reduced service and they've had hours to draft in extra drivers if they thought it would be needed.

We slowed down at the flood area, but I couldn't see any water on the line.

Water was/is at the railhead so 5mph ESR so the incident is ongoing, not just a moment in time. As for the drivers, where are they drafting them in from, there will only be so many spare, especially when inbound trains have been running over 2 hours late in some cases.

 

[HLE]

Getting a bit better but nowhere near back to normal. LM are completely screwed, most Virgin trains are late or cancelled. Currently on the 30 min delayed 1543 from Euston to Glasgow, hoping to catch the 1742 from Cov to Nuneaton.

Jumping off a pendo and onto the dogbox? Wow what a contrast....

Dogbox wins hands down!

 

[All Line Rover]

Well Euston station is just a little busy for a Wednesday evening! (Photos taken at 18:30)

 

[crehld]

Found myself caught up in all of this. Thanks to a 59 minute connection at Milton Keynes I'm still on time, and operationally things don't seem too bad.

However provision of information has been utterly diabolical. Upon arrival at Crewe I checked with staff and was told that as far as they were aware there was absolutely no disruption at all today (the numerous cancellations and significantly delayed trains obviously hadn't registered). LM website said all Crewe to Euston trains were cancelling at Rugby and that Virgin Trains had ticket acceptance in place, yet information screens at Crewe still showed all trains going through to Euston. I showed the website information on LM's and National Rail's website to staff who told me that statements of ticket acceptance were wrong given there was no disruption and that as such websites were from different companies they didn't apply to Virgin. I was told that in the very unlikely scenario my train would be cancelled at Rugby I'd have to buy a new ticket because I was on an advance ticket and being delayed is a risk I take for buying a cheap tickets which restrict me to specific services (not the first time I have been given this shoddy advice at Crewe).

Set off on time and on board announcements continue to state were going to Euston. It's not until we get to Nuneaton that were told the service is terminating at Rugby. To be fair to the guard we were given connecting train information and we make it onto Virgin train (which apparently despite ticket acceptance and it being the next available train I'm not supposed to do) to Milton Keynes.

No provision of information at Milton Keynes and passengers seem very much left to their own devices. The only information available is from the automatic announcer telling everyone this that and the other cancelled and departure screens which only show the next four departures, which given everything is delayed are only showing trains which should have left over an hour ago. I had to use real-time trains to figure out where my onward train was departing from.

I get this is a major incident and to be fair I've still managed to make my journey, so operationally the response seems to be pretty good. But it's chaos on platforms as passengers have not been told anything or are given conflicting information. Is a communications plan not part of an effective response strategy to such severe disruption? I get the distinct impression that staff in the ground simply couldn't care less or are in the dark as much as the rest of us (probably the latter) - someone's obviously sorting things out operationally, but they don't appear to be telling anyone, or the people they are telling aren't passing information on.

 

[GazUk]

Hello all


The weather and it's after effects have were pretty poor today around the Crick/Kilsby Area when i passed over the WCML at Kilsby on the A5 this morning around 11.10 looking towards Rugby i could see both tracks were semi and fully covered by water.

And the Roads around there have been a right proper mare aswell- the A5(T) down to Junc 18 was closed as both carriageways were under water, the A5 from Kilsby was closed due to flooding, the A5 north from DIRFT had parts of the road covered in water, and the A361 south from Kilsby had parts of the Road covered too! Also the A45 south of Dunchurch was badly effected along with parts of the M1 aswell, so i could see why it might of been a problem for LM and VT to lay on Buses/Coaches/Taxi's with the severe disruption to the roads that would of lead out,south of Rugby to the A5/A45/M1 corridor(s).

The Fields around that way had hell of a lot of water in them which spilled across the Roads (and railway lines too), it was so bad that myself and another member of the public joined a Network Rail Employee to Rescue an OAP who decided that he could drive his car through a flooded section of country lane between a little Village called Ashby St.ledges that goes upto the A5 (and over the southern end of the Kilsby tunnel) all three of us managed to push this car through a section of 2-3ft of flooded lane!

So if the roads could not cope with the water, the lines that were in cuttings would of been right mares to sort out!

 

[cookie365]

I was on the 14:20 Euston to Piccadilly today.

Water at least up to the rails for several hundred metres - no handy mirrors opposite the train to see if it went inbetween the rails

Big swathes of countryside under water.

I'm suprised we were only an hour late.

 

[causton]

Apparently services have now been reinstated to Wolverton and Northampton.

I found this out from the local rag's website; LM it seems cannot yet be bothered to properly update their website.

Yes, as I am sure this email is forged that I received at 16:20, as well as the website being updated at that time:

http://londonmidland.mynewsdesk.com...e-northampton-train-services-restored-1338358

[/sarcasm]

 

[daikilo]

Hello all


The weather and it's after effects have were pretty poor today around the Crick/Kilsby Area when i passed over the WCML at Kilsby on the A5 this morning around 11.10 looking towards Rugby i could see both tracks were semi and fully covered by water.

And the Roads around there have been a right proper mare aswell- the A5(T) down to Junc 18 was closed as both carriageways were under water, the A5 from Kilsby was closed due to flooding, the A5 north from DIRFT had parts of the road covered in water, and the A361 south from Kilsby had parts of the Road covered too! Also the A45 south of Dunchurch was badly effected along with parts of the M1 aswell, so i could see why it might of been a problem for LM and VT to lay on Buses/Coaches/Taxi's with the severe disruption to the roads that would of lead out,south of Rugby to the A5/A45/M1 corridor(s).

The Fields around that way had hell of a lot of water in them which spilled across the Roads (and railway lines too), it was so bad that myself and another member of the public joined a Network Rail Employee to Rescue an OAP who decided that he could drive his car through a flooded section of country lane between a little Village called Ashby St.ledges that goes upto the A5 (and over the southern end of the Kilsby tunnel) all three of us managed to push this car through a section of 2-3ft of flooded lane!

So if the roads could not cope with the water, the lines that were in cuttings would of been right mares to sort out!

Indeed, so what exactly is the TOC commitment to resolve operating issues? T stands for train so why does a TOC need to arrange road transport when the clouds open and routes become under water. Is there anyone who can prevent/mitigate this?

 

[miami]

Euston concourse calm now, and the 2040 to Manchester has just pulled out at 2101 so not bad.

 

[All Line Rover]

Did they recommend passengers for SPT and MAN on the 21:00 board the 20:40? The 20:40 is 11-car (normally 9-car), so it is not especially busy. Overall I'm pleased with the way Virgin handled the disruption today, even if the advice of some of their station staff leaves something to be desired (I don't care about that because I never ask - almost all of Virgin's guards are very reasonable).

 

[Bungle965]

I was not actually caught up in the disruption, but i was at Manchester P at the time that there was most disruption (peak time) and there was regular announcements to passengers telling them to travel via Leeds or Sheffield, lots of staff were out and about helping passengers with any questions that they might have, also handing out deley repay forms. Overall for the situation i think that Virgin did very well.
Sam

 

[All Line Rover]

Yes, it was the same at Euston in the afternoon. Despite the station being packed there were Virgin employees handing out paper Delay Repay forms to arriving passengers. Furthermore, the guard on the train I travelled on announced that passengers could claim Delay Relay compensation at least three times. Very impressive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, as I am sure this email is forged that I received at 16:20, as well as the website being updated at that time:

http://londonmidland.mynewsdesk.com...e-northampton-train-services-restored-1338358

[/sarcasm]

I got the first e-mail but not that one. Furthermore JourneyCheck and the front page, as well as that additional /flooding page, had not been updated as of my posting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, so what exactly is the TOC commitment to resolve operating issues? T stands for train so why does a TOC need to arrange road transport when the clouds open and routes become under water. Is there anyone who can prevent/mitigate this?

As stated above, there were open roads that would have permitted a Milton Keynes to Wolverton (certainly, very few roads in MK itself were closed) and Milton Keynes to Northampton shuttle. Long Buckby probably indeed wasn't servable, however. And Rugby was being served by VT, so no bus to there necessary.

 

[driver_m]

I got the first e-mail but not that one. Furthermore JourneyCheck and the front page, as well as that additional /flooding page, had not been updated as of my posting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As stated above, there were open roads that would have permitted a Milton Keynes to Wolverton (certainly, very few roads in MK itself were closed) and Milton Keynes to Northampton shuttle. Long Buckby probably indeed wasn't servable, however. And Rugby was being served by VT, so no bus to there necessary.

As has already been asked. Where was this fleet of coaches coming from at such short notice. When we were doing blockades years ago at Stockport and Macclesfield the coaches were coming from far and wide. That was planned. At short notice and with various announcements about road trouble all across England today, where were these coaches coming from? Today was horrific and hopefully not one that I'll see again for a long time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As has already been asked. Where was this fleet of coaches coming from at such short notice. When we were doing blockades years ago at Stockport and Macclesfield the coaches were coming from far and wide. That was planned. At short notice and with various announcements about road trouble all across England today, where were these coaches coming from? Today was horrific and hopefully not one that I'll see again for a long time.

You're not getting my point. My complaint was not about the non-provision of services if that was because coaches could not be obtained. My complaint was the false statement by LM that due to road conditions no replacement services were operable, when demonstrably a subset of them would have been operable. Only Long Buckby was potentially completely inaccessible, and serving Rugby was unnecessary as VT were serving it. Sufficient roads were open for MKC<->Wolverton and MKC<->Northampton replacement services to operate.

I object to the fobbing-off of passengers with falsehoods. If coaches were unavailable, that should have been stated as the reason for the inability to operate replacement services. But even so perhaps LM could have, for instance, negotiated ticket acceptance with Arriva MK for MKC-Wolverton, or something similarly useful. Or even provided a taxi shuttle; passenger numbers from Wolverton off-peak are not huge, and with disruption elsewhere many wouldn't have bothered.

 

[All Line Rover]

As is usually the case, the 21:10, 21:40 and 22:00 departures from Euston all departed Euston more than 15 minutes late (22:15, 22:30 and 22:25 respectively), and their delays just get worse and worse. The 21:10 is now running 120 minutes late, the 21:40 around 120 minutes late, and the 22:00 around 80 minutes late. All are expected to arrive into their destinations (Preston, Manchester and Crewe respectively) around 2am. These progressively worse delays almost always afflict post-9pm departures from Euston which depart more than 15 minutes late and run via the Trent Valley. I am being specific about 'post-9pm', as compare the 21:00 to Manchester, which departed Euston 30 minutes late and arrived into Manchester 40 minutes late, as would be expected. The 21:07 to Liverpool is an exception tonight. Departed Euston 55 minutes late and arrived into Liverpool 65 minute late. Normally the delay would get substantially worse en route.

 

[driver_m]

You're not getting my point. My complaint was not about the non-provision of services if that was because coaches could not be obtained. My complaint was the false statement by LM that due to road conditions no replacement services were operable, when demonstrably a subset of them would have been operable. Only Long Buckby was potentially completely inaccessible, and serving Rugby was unnecessary as VT were serving it. Sufficient roads were open for MKC<->Wolverton and MKC<->Northampton replacement services to operate.

I object to the fobbing-off of passengers with falsehoods. If coaches were unavailable, that should have been stated as the reason for the inability to operate replacement services. But even so perhaps LM could have, for instance, negotiated ticket acceptance with Arriva MK for MKC-Wolverton, or something similarly useful. Or even provided a taxi shuttle; passenger numbers from Wolverton off-peak are not huge, and with disruption elsewhere many wouldn't have bothered.

I get your point perfectly well. We would be likely to run rail replacement coaches if such a critical location (rugby) gets blocked. The fact that we didn't should tell you something. Looking at the state of things out there yesterday it was near impossible to get coaches. The m6 and m1 resembled car parks.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A truly awful day for the WCML -over 13000 delay mins and a right time of less than 10% - the freight delays must have been equally bad .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I get your point perfectly well. We would be likely to run rail replacement coaches if such a critical location (rugby) gets blocked. The fact that we didn't should tell you something. Looking at the state of
things out there yesterday it was near impossible to get coaches.

So you don't think passengers should have been told the truth? It is only that that I am bothered about.

The m6 and m1 resembled car parks.

Unless the DfT's traffic website was not working, the M1 was free-flowing past Northampton for much of yesterday.

 

[miami]

The 2040 last night was the wrong way round - with standard/A nearest London.

How do wcml trains get accidentally turned around?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only one I can think of is that I *think* you can get to London from both ends of New St.

 

[33056]

The 2040 last night was the wrong way round - with standard/A nearest London.

How do wcml trains get accidentally turned around?

Most common way is heading north out of Birmingham when going to Euston, via Soho, Perry Barr and Aston to Stechford though Virgin normally arrange to get the sets turned back the right way as soon as practicable.

I was very lucky yesterday as, unlike London Midland, the Southern service appeared to be running normally. It does beg the question why are London Midland so incompetent that they couldn't even run some sort of shuttle service to Milton Keynes, under BR we had set contingency plans for various scenarios like running an all stations service every half hour, it isn't rocket science :roll: