Signalling error leading to train rerouting

[Geezertronic]

Because at some TOCs using the GSMR/NRN/crewcall is classed as a distraction! :roll:

Yep they dont think the driver is smart enough to know when its safe to use the radios etc and when its best to leave them. Thankfully my present (and previous) TOC are a bit more sensible than that.

You seem to have a big beef with Virgin Trains, did they decline you for a job or something? :roll:

 

[Alistair G.]

My TOC is the same. Cannot use GSMR whilst on the move. I will refrain from making a comment about it though!!

I understand the safety side of things, I do, but what really puzzles me is we are told not to ring Virgin drivers on the move, but then when we have a line blockage they ring us on the move to find out what they are following... So why the difference?.

As for sending contact signaller, the notice I got is we cannot contact drivers on the move. Doesn't differentiate between text or call, so I choose to do neither.

 

[Minilad]

I understand the safety side of things, I do, but what really puzzles me is we are told not to ring Virgin drivers on the move, but then when we have a line blockage they ring us on the move to find out what they are following... So why the difference?.

As for sending contact signaller, the notice I got is we cannot contact drivers on the move. Doesn't differentiate between text or call, so I choose to do neither.

I am not a driver for Virgin so I can't comment on their company stance. My guess would be they are told they can't use GSMR whilst moving but some do anyway. But that would be a guess and apologies if I am wrong. A Virgin driver might be able to put me straight if its not the case.
I know a lot of drivers think my companies stance on this is going too far but comply anyway as obviously it would be a massive risk if something went wrong whilst using it. Once again though it shows how each TOC deals with things differently. Far simpler for all concerned if there was a blanket rule all TOCs adhered to.

 

[455driver]

You seem to have a big beef with Virgin Trains, did they decline you for a job or something? :roll:

Ha ha very funny, yawn! :roll:
No never applied to them or had any desire to work for them, not in my area anyway etc etc.

My problem (as already posted but you seem to have missed) is the way they always blame somebody else for their failings, most TOCs wont blame anyone else directly (even when it is their failing) but good old Virgin (there happy :roll are very quick to blame anyone and everyone no matter who is actually at fault.

Another is the way they lost the franchise and threw all their toys out until they got their own way.

They want to run extra trains even though NR dont want them on NRs network, Virgin then go to teacher kicking and screaming until they get their own way. But when NR are proved right and trains begin to run late due to lack of capacity/recovery room you can bet your bottom dollar Virgin will be demanding compensation from NR even though the fault can be firmly based at Virgins door!

I dont think Virgin have done the railways any good at all except for their slick image that crumbles when you actually start looking into the company.

I have more but that will do for now!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am not a driver for Virgin so I can't comment on their company stance. My guess would be they are told they can't use GSMR whilst moving but some do anyway. But that would be a guess and apologies if I am wrong. A Virgin driver might be able to put me straight if its not the case.
I know a lot of drivers think my companies stance on this is going too far but comply anyway as obviously it would be a massive risk if something went wrong whilst using it. Once again though it shows how each TOC deals with things differently. Far simpler for all concerned if there was a blanket rule all TOCs adhered to.

If the driver doesnt know when it is safe (or otherwise) to use the GSMR etc then they shouldnt be driving trains, I mean we are supposed to be professional drivers arent we?

 

[Alistair G.]

I am not a driver for Virgin so I can't comment on their company stance. My guess would be they are told they can't use GSMR whilst moving but some do anyway. But that would be a guess and apologies if I am wrong. A Virgin driver might be able to put me straight if its not the case.
I know a lot of drivers think my companies stance on this is going too far but comply anyway as obviously it would be a massive risk if something went wrong whilst using it. Once again though it shows how each TOC deals with things differently. Far simpler for all concerned if there was a blanket rule all TOCs adhered to.

I know a lot of Virgin drivers feel the same, silly rule but comply because it could cost them their job and I would NEVER want somebody to do anything that could jeopardise their job or safety. I agree, I believe a blanket ruling on GSM-R use rather than a TOC to TOC briefing would be better.... Time for a rule book amendment me thinks!.

 

[455driver]

I know a lot of Virgin drivers feel the same, silly rule but comply because it could cost them their job and I would NEVER want somebody to do anything that could jeopardise their job or safety. I agree, I believe a blanket ruling on GSM-R use rather than a TOC to TOC briefing would be better.... Time for a rule book amendment me thinks!.

We all know what that would be then dont we! :roll:
May as well scrap GSMR and go back to using the SPT in that case.

Its a pity people/companies cant be sensible in their views isnt it!

 

[Alistair G.]

We all know what that would be then dont we! :roll:
May as well scrap GSMR and go back to using the SPT in that case.

Its a pity people/companies cant be sensible in their views isnt it!

Politics Mr 455.... We don't run the railways and there for we cannot possibly know what would be best, I'm sure we have gone off topic here anyway. Do love to hear drivers views on things though, especially "off area" to see how things are outside of the rugby SCC bubble

 

[Minilad]

If the driver doesnt know when it is safe (or otherwise) to use the GSMR etc then they shouldnt be driving trains, I mean we are supposed to be professional drivers arent we?

Quite. But someone has to tick boxes for a living remember

 

[westcoaster]

We go through a number of boxes West Hampstead, victoria Eastern and central, three bridges, London Bridge and ashford

Of the above West Hampstead will call you on the move ( even coming to a red as has been said they can't tell where you are in section) sometimes they send th contact message, the rest just sit back and wait till you contact them.

Maybe the Virgin ruling is TOC specific and what they the safety department deem ok. On class 377's we have speed set now TL drivers can use it but on SN if you use it it is imstant dismissal crazy I know but those are the rules.

 

[najaB]

Another is the way they lost the franchise and threw all their toys out until they got their own way.

I'm not able to comment on any other part of your post, but Virgin was correct to protest First winning the West Coast franchise as the winning bid was based on provably wrong figures. The DfT has gone on record as saying as much (allegedly it was a mistake in the spreadsheet that they sent out as part of the bid process, Virgin spotted the error and submitted their bid with a corrected formula).

When the franchise is re-tendered, Virgin will have just as much chance to win or lose the competition as anyone else.

 

[headshot119]

It is not ARS. Currently none of rugby SCC is equipped with working ARS

You're simulator is ARS equipped though isn't it? Or am I imagining that from when I had a go on it.

 

[driver_m]

The state of play with the gsm for us is that the signallers cannot contact us on it directly on the move, there's no problem with a 'contact box' message though. There was initially a spate of incidents when we were getting rung up approaching reds inspite of us having the facility to let the bobby know we were stood at the signal. Its not about us being high and mighty or whatever other rubbish people want to throw at us. I had it done to me and found it a huge distraction, all to save a few seconds and for what?


As for the comments about VT throwing its toys out, then I think history has proven we were right to complain.

 

[rebmcr]

To give sufficient advance warning, a preliminary route indicator was provided to show the route set. The feature isn't required for normal junction safe speed control purposes, but purely to give sufficient notice to allow a freight train to pull up completely short of the junction signal if wrongly routed, so the signaller can reroute again with minimum delay.

If a signaller gets a driver's assent for such an adverse aspect change, can he/she override the approach locking timer or is that impossible?

 

[carriageline]

If a signaller gets a driver's assent for such an adverse aspect change, can he/she override the approach locking timer or is that impossible?

Impossible, the route times out no matter what and doesn't have an override for obvious reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rebmcr]

Impossible, the route times out no matter what and doesn't have an override for obvious reasons.

Seems sensible.

 

[sbt]

(allegedly it was a mistake in the spreadsheet that they sent out as part of the bid process,

Issues relating to a spreadsheet model were involved but that was only part of the problem. The Laidlaw inquiry went into it in some depth. Just as a rail accident investigation looks for the underlying cause the inquiry went looking for why there was a problem with the spreadsheet model in the first place and looked in similar depth at all the other problems with the bidding process.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/west-coast-main-line-final-report-of-the-laidlaw-inquiry

There is no 'allegedly' about things - the reasons for the problems were gone into in depth by at least three separate inquiries, Laidlaw, Brown and the National Audit Office.

After these a report into the use of modelling to support decision making across government was written. As an analyst who has spent nearly 30 years creating and using models to support decsion making within the Ministry of Defence this was obviously of interest to me. Luckily (actually, luck had absolutely nothing to do with it) most of the issues raised did not apply in my work area due to the processes we already had in place.

 

[Alistair G.]

You're simulator is ARS equipped though isn't it? Or am I imagining that from when I had a go on it.

Yes the simulator is equipped with it but we have to switch that off manually at the start of any training we undertake.

As I said above, all workstations are equipped with ARS, it has just been signed out of use for "technical reasons". So it's about as useful as a chocolate teapot at the moment

 

[Aictos]

While I know many drivers sign both routes, I didn't realise they would be told to accept it without question, though it makes perfect sense. Would this apply for GN trains running non stop between Finsbury Park - Stevenage, they would go via Hertford North without question?

Not sure on non stop services but for services booked to call at stations via Welwyn Garden City routed Hertford North usually query the route before arriving at Alexandra Palace, the same I believe applies to services booked to call at stations on the Hertford Loop usually query the route if sent via Welwyn Garden City.

 

[Tomnick]

Not sure on non stop services but for services booked to call at stations via Welwyn Garden City routed Hertford North usually query the route before arriving at Alexandra Palace, the same I believe applies to services booked to call at stations on the Hertford Loop usually query the route if sent via Welwyn Garden City.

Trains booked to call at intermediate stations are, of course, a completely different kettle of fish, and I'm not aware of anywhere where trains can accept a diversionary route without querying it if it'd mean being unable to make booked calls.

 

[bnm]

I always call them Virmin (capital V out of respect )

You'll obviously take no issue should anyone call your current employer 'Worst Late Western' then? Even if the epithet is just as tired, unjustified and unfunny as 'Vermin'. :roll:

 

[455driver]

You'll obviously take no issue should anyone call your current employer 'Worst Late Western' then? Even if the epithet is just as tired, unjustified and unfunny as 'Vermin'. :roll:

After today it would be very apt indeed!