Signalling and colourblind tests

[BenHull]

Has anybody failed a medical for being colourblind (eye perception tests)?

 

[JohnFM]

Has anybody failed a medical for being colourblind (eye perception tests)?

Yes.

Next.

 

[BenHull]

Yes.

Next.

You have?

 

[JohnFM]

You have?

No, just answering your question. I doubt if anyone who fails, for whatever reason, would be lurking the boards.

Do you believe you have a colour differentiation issue?

 

[BenHull]

Yes I struggle with the colour circles and numbers tests so I believe I maybe colourblind. I'm hoping this won't jepodise my chances of ever becoming a signaller but I fear it will.

 

[eriks]

Yes I struggle with the colour circles and numbers tests so I believe I maybe colourblind. I'm hoping this won't jepodise my chances of ever becoming a signaller but I fear it will.

You have to be able to pass the Ishihara test (numbers in circles)
Rather than worrying about why not get your optician to check next time you have an eye test and at least you will know whether signalling is an option career-wise.

 

[BenHull]

Thanks Eriks. I'm absolutely devasted that this is the test as I know I can't do them! I really want a career in signalling but I guess it's not for me

 

[Clansman]

Has anybody failed a medical for being colourblind (eye perception tests)?

Yes

There's extensive testing available privately of which TOCs use to identify the degree of deficiency using a secondary method, as per government legislation. This is often a Lantern test, although alternative options such as a CAD test (used for pilots) may be used.

I failed the plate test like you, and was diagnosed with a very mild deficiency, which hasn't ever affected my lfie or ability to percieve colours in anyway. So I undertook some research and booked a lantern test with Bupa (who previously conducted driver medicals for Scotrail) and passed it.

My advice for you is if to give Bupa a call and see what they can do for you, as opticians only offer the standardised Ishihara and University tests.

It's still possible to get in after failing the Ishihara, but you might want to do what I did and get it done privatley so you know where you stand in the grand scheme of things before you apply (if you already haven't), costs in the region of a hundred quid but worth it if you are getting the answers you need to follow your employment ambitions.

Good luck

 

[CheeseOnToast]

Long time lurker, first time poster...

I feel for you, I'd love to be more frontline. I'm colour blind and also have a lazy eye and for me anything front line is a straight "no". There are plenty of other jobs to do on the railway that are just as exciting, in mine I still get to visit 'boxes and have been lucky enough to have a cab ride or two and when I've told drivers I'm colour blind but can read each signal correctly they seem surprised. That's until a signal changes from green to red in front of me and I don't pick up the change. That's a risk I couldn't live with, that and I'd fail the medical with my other eye issue anyway.

There are different types of colour blindness so could be different for each individual.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes

There's extensive testing available privately of which TOCs use to identify the degree of deficiency using a secondary method, as per government legislation. This is often a Lantern test, although alternative options such as a CAD test (used for pilots) may be used.

I failed the plate test like you, and was diagnosed with a very mild deficiency. So I undertook some research and booked a lantern test with Bupa (who previously conducted driver medicals for Scotrail) and passed it.

My advice for you is if to give Bupa a call and see what they can do for you, as opticians only offer the standardised Ishihara and University tests.

It's still possible to get in after failing the Ishihara, but you might want to do what I did and get it done privatley so you know where you stand in the grand scheme of things before you apply (if you already haven't), costs in the region of a hundred quid but worth it if you are getting the answers you need to follow your employment ambitions.

Good luck

BUPA are no longer involved with Network Rail, and do not do their medicals.

 

[Clansman]

BUPA are no longer involved with Network Rail, and do not do their medicals.

Suppose it differs depending on what role you want in the railway, but surely the regulations for drivers are the same for signallers?

 

[eriks]

Yes

There's extensive testing available privately of which TOCs use to identify the degree of deficiency using a secondary method, as per government legislation. This is often a Lantern test, although alternative options such as a CAD test (used for pilots) may be used.

Do the TOCs do something different then? I was told when I had a NR medical for signaller that they only accept Ishara.....

 

[Llanigraham]

Suppose it differs depending on what role you want in the railway, but surely the regulations for drivers are the same for signallers?

Don't know, but the OP says Signalling in the title of the thread I was answering for our side of the track.

 

[JohnFM]

The Holmes Wright lantern test (CAM lantern) is adopted in order to simulate lighting on ship, with vertical lighting as a specific testing environment. It isn't really used elsewhere unless specifically allowed. Clansman was very lucky, maybe due to the mild nature of red - green deficiency.

The City University Test is only used to determine the severity of colour deficiency in roles where a certain level of colour deficiency is accepted. Similarly the CAD test is used to differentiate any small colour deficiencies and used for roles where these small differences are necessary, such as ATC.

Safety critical roles within the rail inustry; Driver and Signaller, must be full colour vision capable.

The Ishihara test is considered the standard test and considered to be THE test. http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/gogn3655%20iss%202.pdf

Page 16 of the PDF above:

"B.2.3 For operational safety purposes in the rail industry, there has been no
requirement to determine the degree of colour vision deficiency and a test that
simply discriminates between normal and defective has been sufficient. This is
because an incident could occur where incorrect colour discrimination was
suggested as a possible cause and it would have been almost impossible to
refute that if the employee had any degree of colour vision defect

B.2.4 Colour vision tests need to be easy to administer while giving accurate and
reproducible results. The Ishihara Test meets these requirements and is very
sensitive for detecting red-green abnormalities."

 

[BenHull]

Well if that is THE test then unfortunately I can't apply for a signalling job. It's so upsetting I've been so excited at the prospect as well:cry:

 

[mac]

Thanks Eriks. I'm absolutely devasted that this is the test as I know I can't do them! I really want a career in signalling but I guess it's not for me

If you are from Hull you may struggle to get a signalling job without moving away as most boxes only have another 15 month left.

 

[signallerscot]

It's still possible to get in after failing the Ishihara, but you might want to do what I did and get it done privatley so you know where you stand in the grand scheme of things before you apply (if you already haven't), costs in the region of a hundred quid but worth it if you are getting the answers you need to follow your employment ambitions.

Not as a signaller it's not. Network Rail use the Ishihara test only and won't support any further investigations. If you can't pass the Ishihara test then you will fail your initial medical and your application will be terminated. It may be different for other roles and companies on the railway but I can categorically state that this is the current position for signaller recruitment.

 

[Clansman]

Clansman was very lucky, maybe due to the mild nature of red - green deficiency.

Indeed I was very luck. My colour deficiency is very mild and is only detected through use of these tests, as opposed to it actually affecting my vision hands on in reality - otherwise I'd of known about it at an early age. I had bad eye problems as a young child which left internal scarring so that might have contributed to a slight weakness in colour vision, hence why mine is very mild and was luckily able to pass a recognised secondary method with a company affiliated with TOCs.

Not as a signaller it's not. Network Rail use the Ishihara test only and won't support any further investigations. If you can't pass the Ishihara test then you will fail your initial medical and your application will be terminated. It may be different for other roles and companies on the railway but I can categorically state that this is the current position for signaller recruitment.

Apologies, as said I only had the knowledge based on driver requirements rather than a Network Rail signaller, so I've no idea how they conduct their examinations and what they do and don't use. I'd of thought that should the OP take up the option to privately book a recognised secondary method, then that would give further clarification on where he stands so that he can take in the documentation to his employers to declare it: as they may not offer to conduct an alternative method (as per legislation), but I wouldn't say that it would be worthwhile given the strictness in regulations for signalling.

When I was researching into how Scotrail conduct their examinations, the recruitment officer I had a conversation with stated that they had only ever seen 2 applicants in the past few years have extensive testing done on behalf of the TOC, so it's a very very rare occurence. It's probably the toughest sector outwith the miliatry to break into a safety critical role with a colour deficiency unfortunately, unlike it's aviation counterparts.

 

[JohnFM]

It looks better from an employers perspective for the applicant to sort out any additional medical issues. . . . . . so my advice to anyone with a colour deficiency would be to look into the regulations for your desired role and look for recognised methods of which you can undertake privately, which would save yourself being put in a situation where TOCs may terminate your application based on failing the primary screening test (Ishihara) when you were able to pass a recognised secondary test. Although that being said it is rare that someone with a difficiency has a mild enough condition to be allowed in the railway so it purely depends on the applicant's condition.

You were very lucky Clansman. Extremely lucky - winning the lottery - lucky! most Doctors would never have passed you these days. The rules are absolute.

The ishihara is the only test that is recognised and will be the only test that any Doctor who values his registration as a practising GP will readily accept! As I mentioned earlier the CAD, Holmes Wright etc test for different things other than red - green deficiency so are not really appropriate.

I have been involved in medicals for a long time and seen quite a lot of people with reams of "evidence" that they can pass X test or their urine drug test actually means they used Simple Soap instead of cocaine or that their repeated psychotic episodes were due to intolerance to milk instead of being a mental health issue (I'm not kidding!), etc, etc, etc. Each one failed.

If you cannot pass the medical, as Gandalf says on the bridge to the Balrog, "you shall not pass!". These rules have been tightened up a fair bit.

The ishihara is the definitive test and the only test allowed. http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/gogn3655%20iss%202.pdf Page 15, Section B2 onwards

 

[Llanigraham]

It looks better from an employers perspective for the applicant to sort out any additional medical issues which might be seen to impede ones ability to carry out a safety critical role, so my advice to anyone with a colour deficiency would be to look into the regulations for your desired role and look for recognised methods of which you can undertake privately, which would save yourself being put in a situation where TOCs may terminate your application based on failing the primary screening test (Ishihara) when you were able to pass a recognised secondary test. Although that being said it is rare that someone with a difficiency has a mild enough condition to be allowed in the railway so it purely depends on the applicant's condition.

Sorry, but this is very poor advice for anyone entering the signalling grades.
There is only one test that NR will apply; the Ishihara one. If you cannot pass that you will not be employed.
Suggesting that someone spends money on worthless tests is wrong!

 

[Clansman]

Sorry, but this is very poor advice for anyone entering the signalling grades.
There is only one test that NR will apply; the Ishihara one. If you cannot pass that you will not be employed.
Suggesting that someone spends money on worthless tests is wrong!

You were very lucky Clansman. Extremely lucky - winning the lottery - lucky! most Doctors would never have passed you these days. The rules are absolute.
The ishihara is the only test that is recognised and will be the only test that any Doctor who values his registration as a practising GP will readily accept! As I mentioned earlier the CAD, Holmes Wright etc test for different things other than red - green deficiency so are not really appropriate.
I have been involved in medicals for a long time and seen quite a lot of people with reams of "evidence" that they can pass X test or their urine drug test actually means they used Simple Soap instead of cocaine or that their repeated psychotic episodes were due to intolerance to milk instead of being a mental health issue (I'm not kidding!), etc, etc, etc. Each one failed.
If you cannot pass the medical, as Gandalf says on the bridge to the Balrog, "you shall not pass!". These rules have been tightened up a fair bit.
The ishihara is the definitive test and the only test allowed. http://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/gogn3655%20iss%202.pdf Page 15, Section B2 onwards

Apologies, just more or less trying to lend a word of help to the OP, so I can only do so by relating to him and saying what my next steps were to ensure that I could get accepted into a role I've always wanted to fulfill.
As said, I only have basic knowledge on how tests were conducted up here for drivers so forgive me for pointing out seemingly pointless suggestions and getting my facts incorrect on the basis that NR don't accept a second method of examination.

I would definitley agree that the railway regulations are very tight, and have possibly been tightened up a fair bit over the years - tighter than aviation for that matter.

 

[signallerscot]

Out of interest Clansman are you actually employed as a train driver (it's a little unclear in your posts on this topic) with an acknowledged colour vision deficiency? If so, are you subject to any special restrictions in your duties or an extended medical regime? Is it a red/green deficiency or something else? It amazes me that a TOC would be willing to take on someone with a medical issue when mostly they seem to want to be very, very picky about who they let into the driving grade. Certainly as a new entrant with Network Rail the door wouldn't hit your arse on the way out the medical room.

 

[Clansman]

Out of interest Clansman are you actually employed as a train driver (it's a little unclear in your posts on this topic) with an acknowledged colour vision deficiency? If so, are you subject to any special restrictions in your duties or an extended medical regime? Is it a red/green deficiency or something else? It amazes me that a TOC would be willing to take on someone with a medical issue when mostly they seem to want to be very, very picky about who they let into the driving grade. Certainly as a new entrant with Network Rail the door wouldn't hit your arse on the way out the medical room.

I hope I didn't sound misleading in previous replys regarding this as it was purely out of acquired knowledge rather than experiencing it first hand.

I'm not employed as a rail driver, but was doing research into their medicals when I came across the whole issue with colour vision. I've always wanted to become a driver and had a colour examination conducted at the opticians regarding it, and the results came back as a very mild red-green deficiency. So I turned to close relatives of whom have/had roles in all levels of the railway, mainly for Scotrail, and we were then able to meet the recruitment officer who informed me of the restrictions and instances of similar applicants being accepted with further screening. Which is why I underwent the recommended Lantern test privately.

As someone who is involved in aviation and only a couple of hours shy of being able to obtain a basic licence and underwent a medical on behalf of a local flying company who referred me for the CAD test (after I provided documentation of my Lantern Test results) to clarify my colour vision - of which I passed also. So on the vision side of things, I am now eligible for a Class 1 Medical Certificate (no restrictions) as per CAA guidelines. It will however state on my record that I do have a slight colour difficiency, but that I have underwent all the procedures the CAA lies out in medical conductions to ensure that I was deemed "colour safe" and fit to fly without restrictions.

So when I stated what I underwent and would recommend (in previous posts), it was based on what I was advised by the recruitment officer I spoke to, as well as my eligibility for a Class 1 Medical certificate in aviation. As stated, I understand that the railway is much harder to get into and was informed of this by the recruitment officer, but that my results of the additional 2 screenings (CAD and Lantern) is of an acceptable standard compared with the 2 applicants who were accepted with further colour perception screening also - but that the TOC has the right to dismiss your application without a refferal for further screening.

Hopefully that clears it up now, and apologies for not getting the facts correct about NR Signalling standards as I assumed that it would be the same to drivers and indeed in aviation, without properly doing the research through.

 

[JohnFM]

So when I stated what I underwent and would recommend (in previous posts), it was based on what I was advised by the recruitment officer I spoke to, as well as my eligibility for a Class 1 Medical certificate in aviation. As stated, I understand that the railway is much harder to get into and was informed of this by the recruitment officer, but that my results of the additional 2 screenings (CAD and Lantern) is of an acceptable standard compared with the 2 applicants who were accepted with further colour perception screening also - but that the TOC has the right to dismiss your application without a refferal for further screening.

So you have not been accepted for Driver or Signaller roles?