blue sabre
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Evening all, what does the letter at the start of a signal number signify? Is it the box it is controlled from?
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Signal Numbering/Lettering
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R
RailUK Forums
Generally yes, P for Peterborough, S for Sheffield etc. Sometimes two letters are used, LR for Leicester, PZ for Penzance and so on.
The latest trend is for route codes, at least with some of the newer schemes, although the southern region employed a similar system years ago. OL being Oxford/Leamington, ST Syston/Trent and so on.
In Scotland, some signals have codes with the relay rooms included. So MC is Motherwell, Carstairs relay room, AT is Aviemore and Tomatin relay room, EG is Edinburgh Grantshouse relay room and so on.
The latest trend is for route codes, at least with some of the newer schemes, although the southern region employed a similar system years ago. OL being Oxford/Leamington, ST Syston/Trent and so on.
In Scotland, some signals have codes with the relay rooms included. So MC is Motherwell, Carstairs relay room, AT is Aviemore and Tomatin relay room, EG is Edinburgh Grantshouse relay room and so on.
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
Either the box or the route. Naming the signals after the route is becoming increasingly popular. Examples would be ME for Marylebone box, or OL on the Cherwell Valley line to indicate they are on the Oxford to Leamington Spa route.
Numbers are getting longer too. Traditionally the signals would just be numbered in order, with, say odd numbers on the down road and even numbers on the up road. To help signallers identify signals more easily (without needing to look at a map) there are common prefixes associated with certain types of signal. For example every ground position signal on a route might be numbered 32xx.
Numbers are getting longer too. Traditionally the signals would just be numbered in order, with, say odd numbers on the down road and even numbers on the up road. To help signallers identify signals more easily (without needing to look at a map) there are common prefixes associated with certain types of signal. For example every ground position signal on a route might be numbered 32xx.
Somewhat related to this, I have a query about the letters on a signal plate I saw a few weeks back.
Was along the Camp Hill Line and there were a few new signals, which had not yet been 'commisioned' (were black bagged, etc and no plate), however on the back of these signals was a plate which had the two letters 'LL' followed by a number.
Can anyone shed any light on what the 'LL' is and why the plate was on the reverse of the signal?
Cheers
Was along the Camp Hill Line and there were a few new signals, which had not yet been 'commisioned' (were black bagged, etc and no plate), however on the back of these signals was a plate which had the two letters 'LL' followed by a number.
Can anyone shed any light on what the 'LL' is and why the plate was on the reverse of the signal?
Cheers
blue sabre
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Well you dont get much more comprehensive than that! So i guess the 'T' on the Durham coast line is for Tees box? Does that cover Newcastle too then, i always presumed the 'T' was for Tyne, or Tyneside from when the box in Tyne Yard was operational.
The Planner
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Part of the Water Orton re-signalling, Id say Lifford - Landor St being the LL. They wont get comissioned until next year.
The Planner
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They have started that one early then, Walsall isnt due until 2013.
T is Tyneside IECC, at Gateshead. Should go as far as Ryhope Grange on the Durham Coast line. From Ryhope the next box was Hall Dene, then Seaham, Dawdon, Cemetary North (out of use for many years), Clarenece Road, Stranton and then Greatham (which now controls part of the Durham Coast line). Used to be a couple of other boxes in between for the Sunderland Dock branch, Seaham Docks and some of the collieries at Dawdon.
Schnellzug
Established Member
Related to this, is there anywhere a handy guide to which boxes control which sections of line? I used to know all the boxes on the WCML off by heart, but they've changed it all so much lately I don'[t know where anything is now.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Automatic signals can sometimes be coded differently. I think it was just a Western practice, but their autos used to be DM (Down Main), UM, UR, DR etc depending on the line to which the signal was applicable.
Probably not available to the public. Most likely the reason being if someone knew this they could hit strategic points across the network to full effect.
driver9000
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The letter prefixes aren't unique to a signal box for example CE is used to identify Carlisle and Crewe.
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
This is way off topic, but reading through this thread reminded me of it for some reason. Probably five years old now and some of you might have heard it before but a conversation between a cross city driver and the signalman at Saltley (SY) box.
There is a bit of profanity in the recording, should I mark it NSFW?
There is a bit of profanity in the recording, should I mark it NSFW?
ChrisCooper
Established Member
Yes it is. If the knowledge of which box controls which bit of line is a potential threat to national security then we're totally screwed when the entire network is controlled from just a few boxes like it will be. Plus everyone knows exactly where the entire London airspace is controlled from, a much bigger target than a signal box.
The Planner
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Nothing secret about it at all, Quail maps tell you exactly what box controls which bit if they are up to date.
Don't know if it's quite the same thing, but the Southern did something similar - there are signals controlled by Dorking box prefixed CA which apparently stands for Central Automatic. Other signals controlled by Dorking are prefixed CBK; no idea what that stands for, if anything.
You will find that the lettering on the plates for the dedicated boxes is generally the first and the the last letter of the box name, this isn't always the case but in general you will find this to be fact. If there are 2 names in the box like Wembley Main it is the first letter of each part of the name.
swt_passenger
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CBK will just mean that on that particular line the boxes were CBA - CBZ, in ascending order, Epsom was CBF and Horsham was CBP at that time - they are now subsumed into ASCs...
I can't find any suitable lists online in code order, but as a similar example I'm sure that at one stage of the SWML signalling development WA was the first box at Waterloo, by the time Queens Road was reached the sequence was up to WD - (which you might have thought a good code for Wimbledon), but at that time Wimbledon A, B and C boxes were coded WH, WJ, WK. Then Raynes Park WL and so on down the whole route...
Thinking about it the three letter codes may have started either after WZ, or at a branch in the line...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you wait just about 10 years the list will be quite short, ie 'Rugby'...
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strange6
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I believe they quite often use this conversation in signaller training for some reason.
Ploughman
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Probably because the contractors working on the line doing the installation need to know which signal it is but with the plate turned round so that drivers do not get the wrong detail if they have to report in.
blue sabre
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Whereabout's is the IECC in Gateshead? The only place I can think of seeing is the Old Signalling centre in the yard at Lamsley.
swt_passenger
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It's somewhere alongside the single line between the High Level and King Edward Bridges. It won't necessarily look anything like a traditional signal box of course: http://www.flickr.com/photos/limitofshunt/5946211631/
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blue sabre
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So that's what is over that wall! Next to what must bethe most pointless road footbridge ever!
Minilad
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swt_passenger
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I was quite surprised when I looked at Google's satellite view, I knew the location was about right because I'd seen it marked there on a track diagram. But it certainly doesn't fit with most peoples mental picture of a 'signal box'. Perhaps it's a security feature...
But I bet 99% of the general public wouldn't know where to get a Quail map.
brad465
Veteran Member
Right now I seem to have an addiction to reading those codes 
, and currently I'm trying to work out where exactly signal NK1 is, believed to be on the North Kent line, as the other two lines in the group of three in South east london don't have it.
, and currently I'm trying to work out where exactly signal NK1 is, believed to be on the North Kent line, as the other two lines in the group of three in South east london don't have it.- Status