Signal failure temporary measure

[Philip]

Yesterday evening there was a major signal failure somewhere just south of Manchester Piccadilly, meaning no trains could move in either direction between Stockport/Heald Green and Manchester Piccadilly for a considerable length of time.

For this kind of situaton, when it is clear that it will take a while to fix the problem and thus no trains able to move for half an hour or more, should there be an option in place of reverting to a temporary emergency measure which allows the drivers of all the trains within the affected area to move forward past the red signals at a maximum speed of 20mph, or even less if that would be too fast?

Obviously this system would be in place on the proviso of full and constant communication between the traincrew, signallers and the control centre for the area, and there would have to be a specified length of time between the time of the power failure and giving drivers an effective 'green'.

I'm not an expert in this field so I understand there may be problems with this idea, but from both the passenger's perspective and that of the traincrew and TOC customer relations, this seems simpler than having to keep agitated passengers calm while the train is being held with no estimated of time of getting moving again, and of providing replacement buses.

 

[30907]

On plain line that might be moderately safe (though there have been rather a lot of rear-end collisions in similar circumstances), but as soon as pointwork is involved how do you prove that they will stay locked while trains pass over it. And which route do you leave set (relevant in that area!)?

There is a thing called Temporary Block Working but it takes time to set up for those and other reasons. Google it, it's instructive.

 

[jfollows]

In September 2020 there was a total failure of the Manchester South PSB located south of Stockport which controls the lines to Macclesfield and Crewe.

Crewe Delays 16 Sep

I am stuck on a service due to depart Crewe 40 minutes ago. Apparently there is an individual just North of the station threatening to jump onto the lines. Power seems to have been cut to the WCML wires on the through lines and all services have ceased, although it looks like the South-facing...

www.railforums.co.uk

It took about a day to open the route to through trains under specific rules which required all the points to be secured and unable to be used, so Stockport-Macclesfield was set up along with Crewe-Wilmslow-Styal for a limited number of trains. I think it was a major job and only attempted because it took until 20 September for normal operation to be able to resume. It wouldn't make sense even for a few hours.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yesterday evening there was a major signal failure somewhere just south of Manchester Piccadilly, meaning no trains could move in either direction between Stockport/Heald Green and Manchester Piccadilly for a considerable length of time.

For this kind of situaton, when it is clear that it will take a while to fix the problem and thus no trains able to move for half an hour or more, should there be an option in place of reverting to a temporary emergency measure which allows the drivers of all the trains within the affected area to move forward past the red signals at a maximum speed of 20mph, or even less if that would be too fast?

Obviously this system would be in place on the proviso of full and constant communication between the traincrew, signallers and the control centre for the area, and there would have to be a specified length of time between the time of the power failure and giving drivers an effective 'green'.

I'm not an expert in this field so I understand there may be problems with this idea, but from both the passenger's perspective and that of the traincrew and TOC customer relations, this seems simpler than having to keep agitated passengers calm while the train is being held with no estimated of time of getting moving again, and of providing replacement buses.

This is effectively what happens on simple stretches of line. Train has to be brought to a stand where the signalling is working, driver advised of the situation by the signaller, then driver proceeds per the signallers instructions through the affected area and out ‘the other side’ where normal working begins. It is called Emergency Special Working.

If there are points in the affected area that have lost power (specifically, are not proved in the correct position and locked), then these must be secured before any such working is implemented, otherwise there is a real risk of derailment.

In the case of last night’s incident at Slade Lane it was a failure of the power supply, and the points all went as well, so this could not be done safely. Also, for power supply failures of that nature it is impossible to tell in the early stages of the incident how long it is going to take to rectify. Sometimes it might be resetting a few breakers that takes 10 minutes, sometimes it can be hours (even days).

 

[Philip]

Thanks, I had a feeling the point work would complicate things for something like this.

I remember the problem in September 2020, seem to remember everything failed on the Wednesday evening as a result of theft, so it went on for over 3 days! When did the trains start moving again last night?

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks, I had a feeling the point work would complicate things for something like this.

I remember the problem in September 2020, seem to remember everything failed on the Wednesday evening as a result of theft, so it went on for over 3 days! When did the trains start moving again last night?

all fixed just after 0100, but stock displacement affected this morning.