Signal Failure - Neasden? - Chiltern Disruption

[EnriqueEspaña]

Hi All

Seems like there has been a signal failure somewhere around Neasden. My elderly father has been stuck on a train somewhere in the effected area for over 2 and a half hours. He reports they creeped forward about one signal block in the last 20 mins but back at a standstill. I assume this is due to either trains backed up from Marylebone and lack of platform space.

Not sure if he got on the train from Princes Risborough or from Great Missenden today, does anyone have a theory on how much longer he will be on the train for?

People are quite irate on the train as the driver has announced several times that they would be moving soon, but the fact they have been stuck there for so long means no one believes it anymore! In this case I feel sorry for the driver who has a few people knocking on the cab door from time to time asking for an update, I assume he's just relaying what he's being told from control/signallers.

Thanks for any information in advance, just trying to reassure my father there's some kind of things happening behind the scene to resolve this.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Doesn't sound too good. Looks like Chiltern have issued a "do not travel" warning, and that was a couple of hours ago. Believe many of their trains have been cancelled.

x.com

x.com

Extract...

Due to the fault with the signalling system at Neasden South Jn, our current advice to customers is to travel by alternative operators where possible.

We're working with Network Rail to resolve the fault as soon as we can.

Anyone able to advise when things might get back to 'normal'?

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

Sounds like writing the original post worked a treat as they are now just under Lords Cricket ground waiting for a platform, so all should be over soon!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hopefully so, although another source claims that even quite short journeys into Marylebone have taken over two hours today.

Trains halted on London Overground due to broken down train at Willesden Junction

A broken down train has brought a busy section of the London Overground to a standstill on Thursday evening.

www.standard.co.uk

Extracts...

Commuters are venting their frustrations on X, at being left stuck on trains amid the ongoing Marylebone signal chaos.

Nick Wayth asked Chiltern Railways for an update, as he wrote: “Now over an hour delayed and sitting going nowhere.”

Meanwhile Tom Wehrle said his London-bound train had been stuck just outside Marylebone for an hour.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The railway really needs to up its game in terms of getting trains moving during signalling failures. The 0700 from Aylesbury took over 3.5 hours to London. Whatever happened to hand signalling and temporary block working?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@EnriqueEspaña. Is your father travelling using a paper ticket to say London Terminals? Presume that NOT putting it through the barrier on eventual arrival at Marylebone (and it being swallowed) will make it easier to subsequently claim Delay Repay from Chiltern.

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

@EnriqueEspaña. Is your father travelling using a paper ticket to say London Terminals? Presume that NOT putting it through the barrier on eventual arrival at Marylebone (and it being swallowed) will make it easier to subsequently claim Delay Repay from Chiltern.

I'm not too sure what ticket he uses these days, it used to be a day return to Marylebone plus travel card, but I vaguely recall reading travel cards have been discontinued or that you can't buy them from NR ticket offices, so probably just using a return ticket to Marylebone from either Princes Risborough or Missenden. Knowing my father, I doubt he'll even bother claiming delay repay as he'll claim it's too much hassel.

 

[4COR]

Whatever happened to hand signalling and temporary block working?

Presumably, given the fault is at Neasden South Junction, points may be involved which probably complicates things a bit...?

 

[OliverH68]

Looks a mess out there today, delays now near enough 3 hours.

Quite glad today is one of my WFH days

 

[Rail Ranger]

I'm not too sure what ticket he uses these days, it used to be a day return to Marylebone plus travel card, but I vaguely recall reading travel cards have been discontinued or that you can't buy them from NR ticket offices, so probably just using a return ticket to Marylebone from either Princes Risborough or Missenden. Knowing my father, I doubt he'll even bother claiming delay repay as he'll claim it's too much hassel.

Travelcards have not been discontinued. They were retained after much protest: BBC News - London day travelcards saved following revenue deal

London day travelcards saved following revenue deal

Mayor Sadiq Khan says the travelcard will stay with TfL receiving a "fairer share" of revenue.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Presumably, given the fault is at Neasden South Junction, points may be involved which probably complicates things a bit...?

Clip them to/from Wembley, don’t attempt to run the route via Harrow (pax via LUL Met line), makes life simpler. Why they’ve tried to continue running trains between Harrow and Marylebone is beyond me.

 

[Taunton]

The 0746 from Princes Risborough arrived Marylebone at ... 1202. 3 1/4 hours late

Was any attempt made to stop these services at West Ruislip so passengers could get onto the Underground?

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

The 0746 from Princes Risborough arrived Marylebone at ... 1202. 3 1/4 hours late

Was any attempt made to stop these services at West Ruislip so passengers could get onto the Underground?

Is that a loco hauled service these days? Unsure about platform lengths at West Ruislip and if it would fit, but it probably wouldn't fit at South Ruislip. Also have a feeling it had passed Ruislip already by what my dad indicated to me, but he may have been a bit confused.

 

[4COR]

Is that a loco hauled service these days? Unsure about platform lengths at West Ruislip and if it would fit, but it probably wouldn't fit at South Ruislip. Also have a feeling it had passed Ruislip already by what my dad indicated to me, but he may have been a bit confused.

That one is I believe - had 68015 on it from the looks. Looks like it was "only" 58 min down at West Ruislip, but then took 70 min to do less than a mile after Sudbury Hill....

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

A moment of silence for anyone on the 0614 from Stourbridge Junction which has just arrived at Marylebone… at 1224, approx 225 mins late

 

[12LDA28C]

Presumably, given the fault is at Neasden South Junction, points may be involved which probably complicates things a bit...?

Not a points failure, track circuit failure in two locations. Train service now resumed albeit with ongoing delays.

 

[NickBucks]

Looks as if the Contingency Plan document for this section of Chiltern Railways has been mislaid.

 

[MarkyT]

Not a points failure, track circuit failure in two locations. Train service now resumed albeit with ongoing delays.

The scale of the delays suggests the particular track circuit failures possibly were themselves deadlocking or held route locking across the junction, so signalllers couldn't remotely command the points to move using the individual switches. If points were set towards Aylesbury when the failure occurred then the contingency to set to the Wycombe line would still have to wait until a certified points operator, presumably a MOM or equivalent, turned up on site to wind/pump them over by hand and apply clips and padlocks.

 

[12LDA28C]

The scale of the delays suggests the particular track circuit failures possibly were themselves deadlocking or held route locking across the junction, so signalllers couldn't remotely command the points to move using the individual switches. If points were set towards Aylesbury when the failure occurred then the contingency to set to the Wycombe line would still have to wait until a certified points operator, presumably a MOM or equivalent, turned up on site to wind/pump them over by hand and apply clips and padlocks.

I don't believe this is the case. The affected TCs were on the Up line over a mile (three signal sections) south of Neasden South Jn.

 

[MarkyT]

I don't believe this is the case. The affected TCs were on the Up line over a mile (three signal sections) south of Neasden South Jn.

Odd that the delays were so severe then.

 

[12LDA28C]

Odd that the delays were so severe then.

It depends entirely on what caused the failure of the TCs, what action was required to fix the fault and if that was successful or not, or whether additional equipment or parts were required to be sourced and brought to site, as well as the length of time taken to clear the backlog of trains before obtaining a line block prior to any work commencing. These things can take time.

 

[MarkyT]

It depends entirely on what caused the failure of the TCs, what action was required to fix the fault and if that was successful or not, or whether additional equipment or parts were required to be sourced and brought to site, as well as the length of time taken to clear the backlog of trains before obtaining a line block prior to any work commencing. These things can take time.

Which is why trains are usually cautioned through verbally on plain line until a quieter time or at least until any major backlog has cleared, when the techs can get in and work more easily on rectifying the underlying cause. I wonder if proximity to LUL might be an issue regarding safe working methods in this location. I understand your point about an initial solution maybe not working as expected and requiring more resources/parts.

 

[Taunton]

I wonder if proximity to LUL might be an issue regarding safe working methods in this location.

There could be something underlying in that - we have more than once lost service right at the east end of the Jubilee Line, at Canary Wharf, because of an incident on the Chiltern Line out at West Hampstead etc, where it seems a line closure is all or nothing right across the formation.

But that doesn't excuse not stopping incoming trains at West Ruislip so people can continue by the Central Line.

 

[Route115?]

Checking RTT, the 1C06 didn't make a special stop at Harrow (it went through a minute late at 07:07 but was 53 minutes late at Neasden Dth Jn & 65 minutes late at MYB. I understand the problems - the track is under the control of LUL who may not have been informed of the problems but I would have been furious if on the train. We need to do better.

 

[12LDA28C]

Checking RTT, the 1C06 didn't make a special stop at Harrow (it went through a minute late at 07:07 but was 53 minutes late at Neasden Dth Jn & 65 minutes late at MYB. I understand the problems - the track is under the control of LUL who may not have been informed of the problems but I would have been furious if on the train. We need to do better.

The track that Chiltern operates over south of Harrow-on-the-Hill is not under the control of LUL - the LUL/NR boundary is only a few hundred yards south of the station and the track circuit failures were well south of Neasden South Jn. Also at that point when 1C06 passed through Harrow virtually on time it may well not have been known what the extent of the delay would be, or that the initial fix to the problem would be unsuccessful. In these types of situations it's often not possible to predict the extent of delays however if severe disruption is inevitable then additional stops to allow passengers to travel via an alternative route should be arranged.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Did anyone notice the Celebrity caught up in all this?
Greatest Hits Radio DJ Ken Bruce was late for his show as a result.....

Edit:
This was announced on the Radio Station on the Morning just after 10am by the Presenter who had to temporarily stay on longer to act as cover