Signal berth codes?

[j37401]

Can any signallers tell us what the procedure is for using a siding showing 'Rust'. Is it a case of keeping an eye on the panel or do they have to put a physical reminder on the signal berth in case the train disappears?

 

[alxndr]

Can any signallers tell us what the procedure is for using a siding showing 'Rust'. Is it a case of keeping an eye on the panel or do they have to put a physical reminder on the signal berth in case the train disappears?

Not a signaller, but my understanding is that they must not rely upon the track circuit.

This means that they must ensure that any previous trains have cleared the track circuit section, observe the track circuit indications as the train travels over it (to see if it momentarily goes clear), and protect the track circuit in case it does show clear when occupied. This would mean applying reminder appliances and manually ensuring points are set in the correct movement for the train and holding all conflicting signals into the track circuit section at danger. The risk is that if the track circuit erroneously shows clear points within it could be moved or signals could be cleared into that occupied section.

Also worth noting that the “RUST” we see in signal berths is just an unofficial reminder. In some cases there will be known rust sites recorded on a “rust register” which must always be protected under the TS11 rule book. These are agreed between the local signalling engineer and operations management. There will also be occasions where rerailing work has taken place and the pway will inform the signaller of this so that they can protect the site until the rust has worn away.

 

[Amos390]

Saw this in Beeston Run-around loop the other day, any ideas?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Saw this in Beeston Run-around loop the other day, any ideas?View attachment 199247

I would guess the middle two are saying "Ready to go", but not sure the point of the stops.

 

[LowLevel]

Saw this in Beeston Run-around loop the other day, any ideas?View attachment 199247

It was a broken XC 170 with wheel damage, passed as fit to move slowly but awaiting staff. It has now moved to Tyseley.

 

[Amos390]

It was a broken XC 170 with wheel damage, passed as fit to move slowly but awaiting staff. It has now moved to Tyseley.

170113 + 115 on 5G02?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is this a broken rail at Oxshott?

...although with the line being closed today and tomorrow for engineering works, I'm wondering if it could be something else instead, connected to the works?

 

[transportphoto]

Is this a broken rail at Oxshott?

...although with the line being closed today and tomorrow for engineering works, I'm wondering if it could be something else instead, connected to the works?

View attachment 201270

I’d suggest a T3 Possession - item 35 in a publication (perhaps the Weekly Operating Notices)?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is this a broken rail at Oxshott?

...although with the line being closed today and tomorrow for engineering works, I'm wondering if it could be something else instead, connected to the works?

View attachment 201270

I think in the past on this thread we've seen people's names/initials in boxes for the person in charge of the works, maybe that's what this is?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think in the past on this thread we've seen people's names/initials in boxes for the person in charge of the works, maybe that's what this is?

Ah, so BR would be the person running this particular possession?

 

[Annetts key]

Ah, so BR would be the person running this particular possession?

For a T3 possession, the person in charge of the possession is called a PICOP - Person In Charge Of Possession.
So, yes, BR may be referring to the name of the PICOP.

Inside T3 possessions, the signaller often does not know the details of the work, other than what has been published in the notices (WON - Weekly Operating Notice) which may give a brief overview of the planned work.

Of course, if a broken rail was discovered when the line was open to normal traffic, the signaller would know, but they normally would be more inventive than *BR* if they wanted to put it in the Train Describer (TD) berth.

 

[D6130]

For a T3 possession, the person in charge of the possession is called a PICOP - Person In Charge Of Possession.
So, yes, BR may be referring to the name of the PICOP.

Inside T3 possessions, the signaller often does not know the details of the work, other than what has been published in the notices (WON - Weekly Operating Notice) which may give a brief overview of the planned work.

Of course, if a broken rail was discovered when the line was open to normal traffic, the signaller would know, but they normally would be more inventive than *BR* if they wanted to put it in the Train Describer (TD) berth.

"SNAP"?

 

[RailwayRookie]

"SNAP"?

NOGO is my berth description of choice. I know a guy that uses UPSD or DNSD (Upside or Downside) to denote which rail is broken

 

[Amos390]

I think I've seen BROK before, could be reasonable

 

[Horizon22]

I think I've seen BROK before, could be reasonable

NOGO and STOP seem to be the favourites.

 

[Amos390]

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

 

[saismee]

NOGO and STOP seem to be the favourites.

BLOK, BLCK, BLOC as well, though I see NOGO and BLOK primarily for broken rails, points failures, or bridge bashes in my area.

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

I believe it's an occupied track circuit which hasn't been identified as a train.

 

[RailwayRookie]

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

The unexpected occupation of a track circuits yes. Its never indicative of a signal failure itself but whatever caused the **** would likely prevent the signal being cleared in rear of it.

 

[j37401]

I've noticed authorised mainline shunts from freight terminals sometimes show as **** or 0S00.

 

[Steve Harris]

I've noticed authorised mainline shunts from freight terminals sometimes show as **** or 0S00.

I think 0S00 is the standard term inputed into the system for a light engine (shunt) move.

 

[RailwayRookie]

I think 0S00 is the standard term inputed into the system for a light engine move.

The OP is right, 0S00 is used for short shunt moves the majority of the time. A light loco move would have a proper headcode, although would start with a Zero still.

Obviously some crossover if shunting a light loco 0S00 still counts. But in general an 0S00 on the network would be a Multiple Unit of some kind.

 

[Steve Harris]

The OP is right, 0S00 is used for short shunt moves the majority of the time. A light loco move would have a proper headcode, although would start with a Zero still.

Obviously some crossover if shunting a light loco 0S00 still counts. But in general an 0S00 on the network would be a Multiple Unit of some kind.

Yes your right, I actually ment a shunt move when I said light engine move. (It's been a long day, lol. Brain wasn't fully engaged when I typed!). I've amended my post accordingly.

 

[Ashley Hill]

NOGO and STOP seem to be the favourites.

The words GO and NOGO also appear on facing point lock gauges.

 

[Annetts key]

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

Technically both **** and □*□□ where □ means no digit is lit are both "un-described" codes automatically generated by the Train Describer (TD) system when it sees what it thinks is a "moving" train. Older systems defaulted to the "home position" code. For Western, that was 0Z00.

An un-described code does not necessarily mean that there is a signalling fault or a track circuit / axle counter failure. And not all signalling faults or a track circuit / axle counter failures result in one or more un-described codes being produced.

Un-signalled trains, locos or on track machines or on track plant (for example inside T3 engineering occupations) are the most common cause. Power blips also cause it (some joker described that as "it's snowing" ).

The words GO and NOGO also appear on facing point lock gauges.

On the older gauges yes. Not stamped on the newer ones though.

 

[philthetube]

And then **** usually denotes either a signal failure or an unidentified train/item on the tracks doesnt it?

I just spent 5 mins trying to work out which swear word this was representing...DOH

 

[rower40]

The four-stars description (what to put into a berth if the conditions for a step have occurred but the from-berth is empty) is configurable. On some schemes, *X** is used for compatibility with adjacent TD systems- ie older ones that can only handle a second character of A-Z.

 

[GordonT]

The four-stars description (what to put into a berth if the conditions for a step have occurred but the from-berth is empty) is configurable. On some schemes, *X** is used for compatibility with adjacent TD systems- ie older ones that can only handle a second character of A-Z.

Apologies if this has cropped up before. Which fault or faults can cause a train's reporting number to appear multiple times on a signal diagram one after another in consecutive berths?

 

[zwk500]

Apologies if this has cropped up before. Which fault or faults can cause a train's reporting number to appear multiple times on a signal diagram one after another in consecutive berths?

The most usual one is the nature of the data feed just not updating the stepping up. What the signaller actually sees compared to Traksy, Signalmaps, Opentraintimes etc is often quite different.

The other situation would normally be when the signaller has had to manually interpose the train description for whatever reason (e.g. working around a fault) and didn't clear out or replace the old berth, or did but the data didn't update.

 

[Annetts key]

Apologies if this has cropped up before. Which fault or faults can cause a train's reporting number to appear multiple times on a signal diagram one after another in consecutive berths?

zwk500 in the post above has described possible reasons / issues with the display of data on web sites. But the railway train describer (TD) equipment can also cause this to happen.

If the part of the signalling system that tells the TD when a train has moved malfunctions, sometimes a train will leave it's number behind. In other words, the number does not step forward to match the trains current position. Then signaller may manually re-enter the correct number for where the train is, but not remove the number in the previous berth.

Or you get the number stepping forward, but a a copy stays in the previous berth.

 

[Belperpete]

Problems can occur with copy berths, which are sometimes used at TD and signaller/signalbox boundaries, where the first half dozen or so berths are copies of the berths in the previous TD system, rather than standard stepping berths, so the signaller can see what is approaching. Provided that the copy and clear-out messages are received correctly, the descriptions will appear to step in the usual way, but they are actually stepping in the rear TD. However, if one or more messages fail to get through (such as if the clear-out message fails to get through or is corrupted) then odd things can happen.

For these and the reasons others have posted, it is not uncommon to see two copies of the same description. But the only cases I have seen of larger numbers of the same description being generated is where a communications fault within the signalling system leads the TD to think that every track section in an area has gone occupied, leading to it "flooding" that area with ****/0Z00 type undescribed codes. The signaller will see all the track circuits showing red, so will know what has happened.