Siemens preferred bidder for SWT

[Manchester77]

I'm currently reading through Augusts modern railways and on the first page of Rodger Ford's informed sources it includes a table of ordered rolling stock which includes the SWT 150 carriages HLOS order. I was surprised to see that Siemens were listed in the table as the preferred bidder - and there any releases on the SWT site or the Siemens site because this was the first I'd heard of it.

 

[Manchester77]

Cropped screenshot of the table

 

[Monty]

I wouldn't read too much into it, Siemens was always going to be SWT's preferred bidder since they supplied and now maintain it's current Desiro fleet. It all comes down to money and who pays at the end of the day, but you never know perhaps after all the issues with the 458/5 conversions the DfT might just stump up the cash for new stock and do without the hassle of acquiring and refurbishing used trains from else where..

 

[Manchester77]

Yeah most people assumed Siemens would be the preferred bidder I just found it interesting because it was the first I'd seen from a credible source about the order which otherwise had been quiet

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm currently reading through Augusts modern railways and on the first page of Rodger Ford's informed sources it includes a table of ordered rolling stock which includes the SWT 150 carriages HLOS order. I was surprised to see that Siemens were listed in the table as the preferred bidder - and there any releases on the SWT site or the Siemens site because this was the first I'd heard of it.

Roger makes the point that DfT apparently don't want us to know about that!

 

[swt_passenger]

Yeah most people assumed Siemens would be the preferred bidder I just found it interesting because it was the first I'd seen from a credible source about the order which otherwise had been quiet

It was also mentioned in the July Modern Railways, embedded within the short article on page 26 entitled "DfT coy on rolling stock costs". As it wasn't a headlined story I doubt many people noticed at the time...

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't read too much into it, Siemens was always going to be SWT's preferred bidder since they supplied and now maintain it's current Desiro fleet.

Yes. Even if SWT were looking for someone to supply dishwashers for the mess rooms Siemens would be the winner.

 

[Railengineer]

Yes. Even if SWT were looking for someone to supply dishwashers for the mess rooms Siemens would be the winner.

Not sure the relationship between SWT and Siemens is quite as close as that! They chose Vossloh for the 455 traction equipment and I think the new trains are going to be maintained by SWT at Wimbledon.

 

[Kite159]

Maybe when the time comes to say goodbye to the lovely 455s, SWT will get Siemens to build a similar unit to the Thameslink 700s

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah most people assumed Siemens would be the preferred bidder I just found it interesting because it was the first I'd seen from a credible source about the order which otherwise had been quiet

Roger aka Captain Deltic mentioned it in his e blog released just before the July issue of MR. As usual things seem to be delayed by DafT - I believe the actual contract award to whoever was the successful bidder should have taken place in the Spring.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe when the time comes to say goodbye to the lovely 455s, SWT will get Siemens to build a similar unit to the Thameslink 700s

I imagine by then the 700s would be obsolete. Who knows, perhaps we'd even get comfortable seats.

 

[jopsuk]

At this point, as far as I understand, the SWT procurement will be for a fleet to run the Windsor side inner suburbans- which the 458/5s are currently being slowly introduced on to- with the 458/5s then being refitted with 1st class (a simple task) and used for Reading services, so that the 450s are then all on SWML outer suburbans. This is why the 458/5s are blue.

The 455s (and 456s) will be replaced, mainly, by whatever is eventually chosen to operate Crossrail 2. Unless that slips too far and something is needed sooner.

 

[The Ham]

The 455s (and 456s) will be replaced, mainly, by whatever is eventually chosen to operate Crossrail 2. Unless that slips too far and something is needed sooner.

Even if it does slip, there is nothing stopping an early batch being delivered for SWT's and a later batch being delivered for Crossrail 2, unless it slips so that the gap is to long for that train type to still be current. Even then, chances are the new trains could be made to run with the "old".

 

[Railengineer]

Even if it does slip, there is nothing stopping an early batch being delivered for SWT's and a later batch being delivered for Crossrail 2, unless it slips so that the gap is to long for that train type to still be current. Even then, chances are the new trains could be made to run with the "old".

Why would swt and porterbrook invest in AC Traction for 455's and then replace them with Desiros? Surely this AC investment has got to add another 10 years to the life of a 455?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Assuming the power supply between Poole and Weymouth can handle it, possibly the new stock is for the Waterloo-Portsmouth line, freeing up some 444s to make all trains from Waterloo-Weymouth 10 car. What sort of SDO do 444s currently have (by door, coach or unit)?

 

[jopsuk]

It isn't though. It's for Windsor side locals. This isn't a mystery needing solved.

 

[Monty]

Assuming the power supply between Poole and Weymouth can handle it, possibly the new stock is for the Waterloo-Portsmouth line, freeing up some 444s to make all trains from Waterloo-Weymouth 10 car. What sort of SDO do 444s currently have (by door, coach or unit)?

Currently the SDO system used on both classes of Desiro (444 & 450) can only lock out entire units rather individual coaches. In the very near future however a more versatile SDO system is being introduced and will allow all coaches that are accommodated on the platform to be released.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why would swt and porterbrook invest in AC Traction for 455's and then replace them with Desiros? Surely this AC investment has got to add another 10 years to the life of a 455?

Crossrail 2 is currently proposed to open in 2030. So that's another 16 years for the 455s.

The new trains for SWT are a growth build, not a replacement. As another poster says, there's no mystery here to be solved. It's all been in the public domain for ages.

 

[Manchester77]

Crossrail 2 is currently proposed to open in 2030. So that's another 16 years for the 455s.

With retractioning which is taking place as well as the original SWT refurbishment I could see the 455s lasting that long defiantly, maybe even longer.

 

[The Ham]

With retractioning which is taking place as well as the original SWT refurbishment I could see the 455s lasting that long defiantly, maybe even longer.

Which is fine, as it gives Crosrail 2030 time to slip like Thameslink 2000 did.

 

[Manchester77]

Which is fine, as it gives Crosrail 2030 time to slip like Thameslink 2000 did.

Crossrail 2050 sounds better anyway

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I could see the 455s lasting that long defiantly

As well as definitely!

 

[Manchester77]

As well as definitely!

oops☺️

 

[Class 170101]

At this point, as far as I understand, the SWT procurement will be for a fleet to run the Windsor side inner suburbans- which the 458/5s are currently being slowly introduced on to- with the 458/5s then being refitted with 1st class (a simple task) and used for Reading services, so that the 450s are then all on SWML outer suburbans. This is why the 458/5s are blue.

Would the 450 move then displace 444s to strengthen Portsmouth / Bournemouth services?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would the 450 move then displace 444s to strengthen Portsmouth / Bournemouth services?

Would be pointless as you'd cut capacity at many stations which can't handle more then 5 car trains. The 444s were built as a direct replacement for the 442s which were built for the Weymouth-Waterloo route

 

[Monty]

Would be pointless as you'd cut capacity at many stations which can't handle more then 5 car trains. The 444s were built as a direct replacement for the 442s which were built for the Weymouth-Waterloo route

This isn't strictly true, the 444s were initially intended to supplement the 442s and for use on the Portsmouth services.

 

[fgwrich]

This isn't strictly true, the 444s were initially intended to supplement the 442s and for use on the Portsmouth services.

As I remember them to be and rather wish still was the case! Presumably unless electrification of Worting Junct to Salisbury happens in some form or other the 450s will more than likely take over some of the 444 operated services to places like Bournemouth, allowing the 444s to be used more on express type services, whilst also allowing to take in growth in future services - 4/8/12 car.

 

[jopsuk]

This isn't strictly true, the 444s were initially intended to supplement the 442s and for use on the Portsmouth services.

Also, there's 45 444s and only 24 442s- which immediately hints that the former were for more than simply replacing the latter

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does the path used by the old Wareham-Waterloo stopper still exist? If it does an 8car or maybe a 12 car 450 could be used between Weymouth and Waterloo (SDO would be needed at some stations). Could any services that stop at many of the stations on the route be run with 450s?

 

[87015]

Also, there's 45 444s and only 24 442s- which immediately hints that the former were for more than simply replacing the latter

And the fleet of CIGs (30 odd?) that were low density units for longer distance work...

 

[92002]

Does the path used by the old Wareham-Waterloo stopper still exist? If it does an 8car or maybe a 12 car 450 could be used between Weymouth and Waterloo (SDO would be needed at some stations). Could any services that stop at many of the stations on the route be run with 450s?

The 380s have a selective door opening system, by coach.

No doubt the 444/450s could be modified if needed.