shunter

[bertie]

Hello to all,
Does anybody know the salary for a shunter with FCC and what the training involves.

 

[spurs4life]

On the gn side its about 18500 thousand you do get enhancements as well like night rate so can earn allot more. training was 2 Weeks classroom based then about 4 Weeks at the depot before bring passed out

 

[bertie]

Thanks for that.applied for a position last Feb and out of the blue got a call today,decisions

 

[jamieP]

Where's the job at?

 

[bertie]

Bedford subject to medical etc

 

[Rick1984]

Is this a good way to get ahead to become a full train driver?

 

[Beveridges]

It should lead to easier progression to depot driver as the shunting skills and depot experience will become transferrable go that role. Pyschometric test pass will be required though as always to go into that.

 

[Firestarter]

Thanks for that.applied for a position last Feb and out of the blue got a call today,decisions

Took their time

 

[bertie]

Yes I know,but it goes to show that if your on hold or awaiting shortlisting your still in the running as frustrating as it can be at times

 

[robert67]

Bedford subject to medical etc

looks like u got the job if they r sending u for a medical mate.!!!

 

[Beveridges]

Unrelated to this specific job in this thread, but I got sent to a medical with ATW for a mainline drivers role and still didnt get it, so just shows theres no guarantee of the offer until you have the contract

 

[E&W Lucas]

Is this a good way to get ahead to become a full train driver?

As has been said on here many times before, you do not need any railway experience whatsoever to become a trainee driver.

You don't see many ex shunters driving, in fact I am struggling to think of any at the TOC's for which I have worked.

 

[Beveridges]

I can think of quite a few ex shunters who have entered the Depot Driving grade, though thats because at one particular depot they replaced all shunters with depot drivers so all the shunters got the chance to apply for the new depot driver roles that were created. So to go into that form of a driving role is certainly a realistic option for a shunter. I dont think many passenger companies have that many shunters nowadays as it is much more productive to have depot drivers doing both the driving and the ground work.

 

[185]

As has been said on here many times before, you do not need any railway experience whatsoever to become a trainee driver.

You don't see many ex shunters driving, in fact I am struggling to think of any at the TOC's for which I have worked.

I know one who was at Neville Hille. Went Trolley-Guard-Shunter-Driver.

 

[bertie]

I can't see the medical being a problem touch wood so hopefully a job offer may well be on the table and I can only think that if a trainee depot driver or mainline driver were to come up then shunter training would only be beneficial in the application.

 

[Beveridges]

I can't see the medical being a problem touch wood so hopefully a job offer may well be on the table and I can only think that if a trainee depot driver or mainline driver were to come up then shunter training would only be beneficial in the application

Shunting would be a massive help in getting into a Depot Drivers role without a doubt, as some elements of the role are exactly the same, such as setting the road (by pulling points or ground frame), controlling movements by handsignal/radio/other, seeing trains on and off depots, Fuelling/CET Tanking, train prep, manual couple/uncouple, etc. This is because Depot Driving incorporates the role of a Shunter as well as a secondary role.
The Shunting would also help getting a Mainline Drivers role but to a lesser extent than it would help get Depot Driving as the experience is obviously not near as relevant.

 

[GB]

As has been said on here many times before, you do not need any railway experience whatsoever to become a trainee driver.

As also been said on here many times before, railway experience won't necessarily hurt.

If there are trainee vacancies available then by all means go for it. If there isn't or you have been knocked back then perhaps look at another railway safety critical role. You will have more chance of getting a drivers job that way then you would stacking shelves, flipping burgers or spending 4 or 5 years at uni.

You don't see many ex shunters driving, in fact I am struggling to think of any at the TOC's for which I have worked.

Ive seen a few.

 

[E&W Lucas]

As also been said on here many times before, railway experience won't necessarily hurt.

If there are trainee vacancies available then by all means go for it. If there isn't or you have been knocked back then perhaps look at another railway safety critical role. You will have more chance of getting a drivers job that way then you would stacking shelves, flipping burgers or spending 4 or 5 years at uni.



Ive seen a few.

Trouble is, your shunter isn't just going to be up against raw graduates, shelf stackers or burger flippers. The real competition will be from graduates with several years of "real world" experience, or those that have been managing teams of shelf stackers or burger flippers. Plenty from that type of background get taken on for driving all the time, ahead of internal candidates.

Shunting is a good career, if you like outdoor, dirty, sometimes heavy, manual work. You can make good money doing it, especially if you are willing to put the hours in.

You recruit a different sort of person for a manual worker's job, ie shunting, to who you would recruit for the driving role.

 

[GB]

So what do you suggest? Attending university on the off chance it might stand you in good stead some years down the line?

All I am saying is that if there are no trainee drivers jobs available and your not one for further education then taking another safety critical job within the company is the logical way to go. You might not elevate yourself above a graduate on paper (and the opinions on graduates will differ from company to company) but its up to you to prove your worth.

There are no guarantees. There is no guarantee you will get a driving job by moving up the ranks and there is no guarantee you will get a driving job as a graduate.

 

[E&W Lucas]

So what do you suggest? Attending university on the off chance it might stand you in good stead some years down the line?

All I am saying is that if there are no trainee drivers jobs available and your not one for further education then taking another safety critical job within the company is the logical way to go. You might not elevate yourself above a graduate on paper (and the opinions on graduates will differ from company to company) but its up to you to prove your worth.

There are no guarantees. There is no guarantee you will get a driving job by moving up the ranks and there is no guarantee you will get a driving job as a graduate.

A bit of anti - graduate prejudice there, I feel. I don't see where I suggested that you should go off to uni, if there are no trainee jobs available.

The opnion of shunters may vary from company to company too....

 

[MacRae13]

What are the differences in roles of a shunter and depot driver?

 

[Beveridges]

A Shunter performs ground shunting tasks (e.g. setting points/ handsignalling/ fuelling/ Tanking / Oil & water / paperwork / prep / manual couple / DP in yards & sheds) and cannot move vehicles. A Depot Driver can drive and also does the tasks a Shunters does as well. On the passenger side they have got rid of a lot of shunters at depots as its more productive to have depot drivers doing both roles, making it a very busy role on nights. At some places they even unblock toilets.
There is also the pay difference. The shunters role advertised in this thread is £18k while a Depot Driver will be on at least £30k.

 

[MacRae13]

I see, thanks very much for the good description mate.

Another role I've seen which I'm not clear on is 'Manoeuvrer' - I imagined a depot driver to be a manoeuvrer, but obviously not. Any ideas?

 

[Beveridges]

Normally that's just another name for an Operations Team Leader - an office based role - duties in this role are working out what units need to be positioned on what roads, liasing with control what units are required on each diagram, liasing with maintenance staff on what units require Exams/Repairs/further storage, working out formations of units, instructing depot drivers what to do with units, updating a white board (a diagram of what road every unit is on), liasing with the signaller to allow units to come on/off the depot to mainline, giving permission for depot drivers to pass stop boards, and several other duties. At some locations such as Blackpool this role is done by a Depot Driver on a rotational basis, other busier locations it can be a seperate job altogether.

 

[9K43]

Most of the senior drivers come from guards, as a result of The Trainmans Concept of 3/10/1988.
A shunters job on a depot is one where you gain lots of time working with all types of traction and types of passenger stock.
Give it a couple of years, there could be a driving vacancy come up.
If you can pass this test of dots and quick reaction tests on the PC, that is your ticket to move up the ladder.
Or you might find that shunting is ok and decide to stop where you are.
When you apply within a company for a drivers job, they know what they are getting.
Just make sure that you arrive on time, minimal sickness, and always check that the points you pull fit up properly, and that you proceed the propelling movements, from a place of safety on the ground. This after reaching a clear understanding of your duties with the shunt driver, and work safely when on or about the railway all the time.
I have been on Neville Hill Shed at all times of day, with LHCS, 101 ton Tanks for the fuel and it was always very busy with trains in and out all day.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Most of the senior drivers come from guards, as a result of The Trainmans Concept of 3/10/1988.

Crikey, you've just done away with the last vestiges of the steam generation, and I don't think the ex - secondmen out there will be too pleased about that either. Some of them can be very touch, if you mistake them for a "boil in the bag"!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just make sure that you arrive on time, minimal sickness, and always check that the points you pull fit up properly, and that you proceed the propelling movements, from a place of safety on the ground. This after reaching a clear understanding of your duties with the shunt driver, and work safely when on or about the railway all the time.

You'll be surprised how many shunters fail to get basic things right. I find it shocking, as they have a potentially dangerous job. Thus my earlier comments, about suitability for higher levels of responsibility.

 

[9K43]

Those Secondmen at 3/10/88 did not have to do the testing for driving as other grades had to do.
Guards were trained in the duties of the 2nd person on the traction unit.
Those who were 2nd Men had to train in the duties of the guard and were made drivers on seniority where ever the vacancy was.
As a result of this an 88 man could drive/secondman/guard as a result of the 88 agreement.
At a freight depot, the 88 drivers did weekend ballast turns, to sub for Trainmen working Charters.
At Neville Hill there was a spate of accidents, one was leaving the de railer on the line in the HST sheds, causing a propelled movement to bite the dust.
Another accident was driving a unit across the turntable, without checking if the TT was set for the movement to be made, bingo another bit the dust.
I would suspect that there are not many drivers left who were in the steam era, as that finished in 1968

 

[GB]

I don't see where I suggested that you should go off to uni, if there are no trainee jobs available.

Not in so many words no. But saying graduates are better suited for the role implies such...at least thats the way I read it.

What is your suggestion then?

 

[E&W Lucas]

I would suspect that there are not many drivers left who were in the steam era, as that finished in 1968

Just a small number of what were young hand firemen left. Still lots of the MP12 generation though!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not in so many words no. But saying graduates are better suited for the role implies such...at least thats the way I read it.

What is your suggestion then?

There's plenty of good candidates out there for driving jobs. Looking at the backgrounds of those that I work with, they are not people who would need to be in the job market for a shunter's post, unless they found themselves out of work. These people have got their driving job, based on what is already on their CV. There is enough transferable skill there, to get them through the selection process.

For a young person starting out, it is more difficult, as there is no clear route into driving. The competencies required have been outlined on here before; I would suggest that they can be obtained in many careers. There is no need to limit themselves to the rail industry. The Saturday job flipping burgers could indeed lead to an opportunity to learn some of them. Just get out there, and make the most of whatever opportunities present themselves.

The particular danger with shunting is getting "typecast" - the examples from NH posted above, will strike a chord with many drivers! (please note, that is not a swipe at those of you who do perform the shunting task properly!).