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Shrewsbury To Aberwystwyth/Porthmadog

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rich.davies

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Hi im new here so please bare with me! :D

I just thought i would ask if anyone has been on the Cambrian Mainline to Aberystwyth or Barmouth at all?

I'm planning on going to either Aberystwyth or Barmouth after the mayday bank holiday. Have the trains got a good track record on time keeping to make connections? & what happens at Machynlleth in regards to the split? does the conductor inform you to make sure your in the right carriage? And is it worth the journey?

Sorry for the longish post

Rich:)
 
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142094

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I've been along to Pwllheli but not to Aberwystwyth yet. Train seemed to be on time for most of the journey, so shouldn't be a problem there. Was an announcement at Machnylleth to let people know what set to be in, and there was one before at Shrewsbury as well.
 

merlodlliw

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Hi im new here so please bare with me! :D

I just thought i would ask if anyone has been on the Cambrian Mainline to Aberystwyth or Barmouth at all?

I'm planning on going to either Aberystwyth or Barmouth after the mayday bank holiday. Have the trains got a good track record on time keeping to make connections? & what happens at Machynlleth in regards to the split? does the conductor inform you to make sure your in the right carriage? And is it worth the journey?

Sorry for the longish post

Rich:)

Welcome to rail forums, well worth the journey.

Bob
 

junglejames

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Whenever ive done it (to Penychain) ive always sat in the Aberystwyth part of the train, then changed at Dover Junction, instead of being in the correct part to start with.

Just so i could say ive been to Dovey Junction. Fantastic little station! Just needs a bit of TLC.
 

AlexS

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Hi im new here so please bare with me! :D

I just thought i would ask if anyone has been on the Cambrian Mainline to Aberystwyth or Barmouth at all?

I'm planning on going to either Aberystwyth or Barmouth after the mayday bank holiday. Have the trains got a good track record on time keeping to make connections? & what happens at Machynlleth in regards to the split? does the conductor inform you to make sure your in the right carriage? And is it worth the journey?

Sorry for the longish post

Rich:)

The trains range from on time to ghoulishly late.

If you want to travel from Shrewsbury, you want to be in the front 2 coaches as they arrive from Birmingham for stations to Barmouth and Pwllheli (these become the rear two coaches leaving Shrewsbury), and the rear 2 coaches (becoming the front 2 coaches) for Borth and Aberystwyth.
 

Rhydgaled

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I did the whole lot last year (I think it was last year anyway) (Aberystwyth - Mach - Pwllheli - back to Porthmadog on the same train - Ffestiniog railway - Llandudno - overnight stay - Conwy (Taxi) - Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth).

Anyway, the weather the first day was really good which I think helped make me surprised just how scenic the Cambrian coast line (Mach to Pwllheli) was (though Porthmadog - Pwllheli wasn't in the same league as the rest of it). Aberystywth to Mach not so impressive I think.

From observations at Aberystwyth station since then, the trains seemed to arrive on time normally until ERTMS was switched on a few weeks ago. Everything went out the window then, but things seem to be getting back to normal., anyone know for sure?
 

lm321412

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The Cambrian Line does have a reputation of being late, dates right back to Wales and West...

Often in BHM, They end up 10 - 20 minutes late, although I suspect most of the time they are OK.

Problem is all the secondary tracks they use can sometimes cause havoc and BHM - WVH often seems to play its face at least once per week
 
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The Cambrian Line does have a reputation of being late, dates right back to Wales and West...

Wales & West? If my memory serves me correct, they didn't cover the Cambrian lines! (Central did.) Wales & Borders then took the lines from Central.

Or is my memory completely off-kilter?!
 

philjo

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THe Abersywtyth portion is usually the front section on leaving Shrewsbury (i.e. the back section from Birmingham due to the reversal at Shrewsbury)
The Pwllheli section leaves Machynlleth a few minutes later.
(Usually - last time I went was on a summer saturday & the train was rammed with most wanting Aber so the whole trian went through to Aber & the used a separate unit from Mach up the coast.)

Sit on the left if you can on leaving Shrewsbury - the sea will be on that side after Aberdovey.
 

JoeGJ1984

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I've never been on these lines (hope to soon, as I live near Shrewsbury - in particular I'm hoping to also do the Vale of Rheidol Railway), but I've wondered why they split the units at Machynlleth and not Dovey Junction (where the routes split, where you'd logically expect them to split the units)?
 

VideozVideoz

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In my personal experience the trains are either ontime or running very late (as someone else has stated earlier in a post). The scenery is fantastic and well worth the trip. Cambrian coast is def better than Aber branch. It's a friendly line too... generally nice people on board and nice conductors.
 
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Because of the track layout at Dovey Junction. It actually has two platforms, one for the Aberystwyth direction and one for the Barmouth direction. Have a look on Goooooogle maps.
 

Greenback

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The Cambrian Coast line is one of my favourite journeys, and one I have made many, many times, sometimes though only to harlech and not 'all the way'.

Highlights for me are the estuary at Talsarnau, with a view of Portmeirion on the other side, the cliffs north of Tywyn and the seaside at Aberdyfi.
 

Rhydgaled

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Because of the track layout at Dovey Junction. It actually has two platforms, one for the Aberystwyth direction and one for the Barmouth direction. Have a look on Goooooogle maps.

Can the Dovey Junction to Mach section only have one train on it at a time, or is there a headway time after which the next train can follow? The first time I looked at that bit on Google Earth, I thought it was double track (well, two single track lines side by side (ie. the points which are really at Dovey being just outside Mach station)). I think having the Pwllheli portion couple up and going through to Birmingham/Shrewsbury is a really good idea and I hope it continues when WAG finally provide the hourly service to Aberystwyth.

When a 4-car train goes to Aberystwyth, why do they have to make coast line passengers change, can't it be 6-car east of Mach?
 

lm321412

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Wales & West? If my memory serves me correct, they didn't cover the Cambrian lines! (Central did.) Wales & Borders then took the lines from Central.

Or is my memory completely off-kilter?!

Whoops...

I meant to say Wales & Borders


Same company, different bloody name after the change :roll:
 
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Can the Dovey Junction to Mach section only have one train on it at a time, or is there a headway time after which the next train can follow?

When a 4-car train goes to Aberystwyth, why do they have to make coast line passengers change, can't it be 6-car east of Mach?

Dovey Junction - Machynlleth Section.
The new signalling system has an axle counter about half way to split the section into two (just like it was when it was track circuit block up to end of March). So yes, two trains can follow each other. Also, there is provision for shunt movements at both ends (Dovey and Machynlleth) as there is additonal axle counter sections extending about 400 out into the single line section (this also occurs in all the other single line sections similar to former station limits under RETB). The headway is about 3 mins to clear the 1st section (but the timetable allows more time than this).


6 car Train east of Mach
Occassionally they will run a 6 car set from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth but mainly just to reposition units around the depots. In face Caersws station isn't long enough for 6 cars so guard has to ensure people don't exit from the front few doors (as there is no selective door opening).


With regards to splitting and joining at Machynlleth.
Additional reasons why (apart from the track layout at Dovey) is because Machynlleth is a staffed station, with facilities and also has the train depot right behind it so fitters can be called out if there are any problems with the coupling un-coupling.

You will also find that sometimes they will take units out of service / put units into service at Machynlleth so you may be required to change trains if going to or coming from the Coast Line (Pwlleheli). I've seen it happen occasionally that the UP train from Pwllheli is running late (it normally arrives into Machynlleth 10-15 mins before the UP from Aberystwyth), and when due to be taken out of service at Machynlleth, instead of getting passengers to change at Machynlleth (and all have to move along the platform single file), they get passengers to change at Dovey Junction and walk directly across the platform to the train from Aberystwyth utilising all doors. They are then able to route the empty train into Machynlleth platform 1 and then into the sidings (saves having to do a shunt around).
 

Gareth Marston

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Dovey Junction - Machynlleth Section.
The new signalling system has an axle counter about half way to split the section into two (just like it was when it was track circuit block up to end of March). So yes, two trains can follow each other. Also, there is provision for shunt movements at both ends (Dovey and Machynlleth) as there is additonal axle counter sections extending about 400 out into the single line section (this also occurs in all the other single line sections similar to former station limits under RETB). The headway is about 3 mins to clear the 1st section (but the timetable allows more time than this).


6 car Train east of Mach
Occassionally they will run a 6 car set from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth but mainly just to reposition units around the depots. In face Caersws station isn't long enough for 6 cars so guard has to ensure people don't exit from the front few doors (as there is no selective door opening).


With regards to splitting and joining at Machynlleth.
Additional reasons why (apart from the track layout at Dovey) is because Machynlleth is a staffed station, with facilities and also has the train depot right behind it so fitters can be called out if there are any problems with the coupling un-coupling.

You will also find that sometimes they will take units out of service / put units into service at Machynlleth so you may be required to change trains if going to or coming from the Coast Line (Pwlleheli). I've seen it happen occasionally that the UP train from Pwllheli is running late (it normally arrives into Machynlleth 10-15 mins before the UP from Aberystwyth), and when due to be taken out of service at Machynlleth, instead of getting passengers to change at Machynlleth (and all have to move along the platform single file), they get passengers to change at Dovey Junction and walk directly across the platform to the train from Aberystwyth utilising all doors. They are then able to route the empty train into Machynlleth platform 1 and then into the sidings (saves having to do a shunt around).

Theirs some speculation that through workings from the coast may have to be suspended when/if an hourly service to Aberystwyth in instigated due to the single track section between Dovey Jnc and Machynlleth being occupied by additional Aberystwyth workings.
 
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Theirs some speculation that through workings from the coast may have to be suspended when/if an hourly service to Aberystwyth in instigated due to the single track section between Dovey Jnc and Machynlleth being occupied by additional Aberystwyth workings.

It will be very tight in that single line section (ideally it would be double track but it will never happen). In fact the hourly service will be even more susceptible to delays than the current 2 hourly service. Due to the need to pass at loops and only approx 10 min turn around time at Aberyswyth it is difficult to make up time once any train is late (trains end up being late the whole day). The coast is not so bad as there is standing time at Machynlleth, Barmouth and quite a long turn at Pwllheli. From a train running point of view it would be much easier to only run the coast service to and from Dovey Junction, however, the number of passengers and amount of luggage would cause an big inconvenience to passengers. There is also the crew change issue (depot is at Machynlleth) but this isn't really a problem as the train could run ECS to Machynlleth in the gaps between service.


I can see a number of options for hourly service to Aberystwyth and 2 hourly to Pwllheli (please bear in mind I have not calculated exact timings):

When there is a Down Pwllheli Train:
Option 1a) If trains run similar to current time table then you would run the DOWN Aberystwyth first to Dovey Junction, where it would pass the UP train coming from Aberystwyth using hte new loop. The UP train would then travel to Machynlleth where the 2 cars for Pwllheli are still waiting. Not sure what the exact timings would be but I'd say it would be at least 14-17 mins from the time the Aberystwyth train leaving Machynlleth to the UP train getting back in again.

Option 1b) Pwllheli Train could depart immediately behind Aberystwyth train.
The Down Aberystwyth train leaving Machynlleth currently takes about 2:30 to clear the first half of the single line sections. So Pwllheli train could run behind it 3 minutes later. It would then run into the Coast line platform and Dovey Junction before the UP train from Aberystwyth passes.


Pwllheli Train in UP direction
Option 2a) At the moment the UP from Pwllheli arrives into Machynlleth about 6-10 mins advance of the UP from Aberyswyth. It would need to be re-timed to get in 15 mins earlier to pass the Down Aberystwyth at Machynlleth.

Option 2b) Trian in Up direction leaving Dovey Junction station takes approx 3:45 mins to clear the first half of the single line section. So in theory you could run a 4 min headway and have the Down Aberystwyth train running into Dovery Junction first, then the UP from Pwllheli, then the UP from Aberystwyth.


So the ideal solutions would be Options 1a and 2a, but it removes the slack that they currently have in the timetable. I would imagine they would go for the b options and the signallers would use the a option when trains are running late.

Anyway, it would be nice to see the hourly service come in... perhaps initially just in the peak direction to let it bed in. Another idea someone has already suggested on this forum previously would to have off-peak services running only hourly to Newtown (this would allow for some ecovery time).
 

AlexS

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And as a perfect example, 1330 Aber to New Street, with a very shiny 158840 on the rear, currently running approximately 57 minutes late, with the next train 13 late. Standard.
 

the-gog

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That was down to the 1J11, 10.09 off Brum International. It was more or less on time as far as Sutton Bridge Junction, then somehow lost 50 minutes between there and Welshpool. It left there 12:45 vice 11:49, and was terminated at Mach I think.
 

Gareth Marston

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And as a perfect example, 1330 Aber to New Street, with a very shiny 158840 on the rear, currently running approximately 57 minutes late, with the next train 13 late. Standard.


Standard? Sounds like an ERTMS related incident to me which after Day 1 & 2 have been becoming less frequent. The extension to BHM INTL in Dec 08 cured the old punctuality problems that bedeviled the Cambrian for most of the 2000's.

On current form I'd be more worried about being to get onto a train. The 0927 off Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth is diagrammed as a 2 car mid week. Theirs been reports of people left behind at stations all week.
 

AlexS

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To be fair to the route things have improved. But I personally would not want to rely on the service to get away from some of the wayside halts it serves, I've been bitten too many times by it in the past!

Wait until the summer when the 158s start to drop in the heat as well :)
 

merlodlliw

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Breaks my heart to say it, but the WAG subsidised fast bus service Wrexham to Barmouth run by Arriva using the new WAG paid for buses is probably the best option if you want to get a seat.

This service replaced the Ruabon/Barmouth rail route, takes about 2.5 hours
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=2501

Its ironic WAG have provided lots of new buses in the area, the service above & the every 12 minutes service Wrexham to Chester Rail Station,
 

The Planner

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The headway is about 3 mins to clear the 1st section (but the timetable allows more time than this).

We can plan to a 3 minute headway down there and have for years, we were the first to demand it when they were planning all this what seems like years ago now !

As for the hourly, don't be too suprised if Dovey doesnt get a constant service all day, it doesn't demand it. I don't see why you can't connect into the coast at Dovey with the unit there, you dont need a proper waiting room, a 158 is lit, has heating/AC and toilets, use that. As mentioned though, the single line section is going to be the killer, you need the occupation time of it as low as possible.
 
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Gareth Marston

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To be fair to the route things have improved. But I personally would not want to rely on the service to get away from some of the wayside halts it serves, I've been bitten too many times by it in the past!

Wait until the summer when the 158s start to drop in the heat as well :)

That was in 2006 and to do with pollen ingestion in addition to high temps early part of that summer and has not happened since. IGER- Institute of Grassland and Environment Research Station (now part of Aberystwyth Uni) has test plots close to Aberystwyth line at Bow St. Effected the Aberystwyth trains more than coast ones rumors of GM Crops with heavy pollen production.
 

Rhydgaled

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Breaks my heart to say it, but the WAG subsidised fast bus service Wrexham to Barmouth run by Arriva using the new WAG paid for buses is probably the best option if you want to get a seat.

This service replaced the Ruabon/Barmouth rail route, takes about 2.5 hours
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=2501

Its ironic WAG have provided lots of new buses in the area, the service above & the every 12 minutes service Wrexham to Chester Rail Station,

New buses?? I thought that route had the same ropey things (albeit WAG funded) as the X32 (Aberystwyth - Bangor), not like the two nice shiny, comfortable, Optare Tempos they (or maybe the council) bought for the TrawsCambria Richards Bros' X50 (Cardigan - Aberystwyth).
 

merlodlliw

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New buses?? I thought that route had the same ropey things (albeit WAG funded) as the X32 (Aberystwyth - Bangor), not like the two nice shiny, comfortable, Optare Tempos they (or maybe the council) bought for the TrawsCambria Richards Bros' X50 (Cardigan - Aberystwyth).

The buses on the Wrexham/Barmouth run are now in their 5th year,the Wrexham/Chester Rail Station buses are in their 2nd year of service.

Suppose compared to the trains they are new.
 
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