Should We Leave the EU?

[Muttley]

...so assume I must be thick

Don't worry, I stopped assuming that long ago.
For the fifth time, I have answered your Irish question.
Do you need me to make it six ?

 

[Howardh]

Out of EU.


EU is in decline while Britain is slowly growing. .

There you go, the UK is growing iwithin the EU; you've said it yourself, but you want to risk it by leaving.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Out of EU.

All the remain campaign is based on fear mongering. All those "respected bodies": IMF, Global Banks, Commissions- are in bed with Globalists. They want the world under one Government, they don't care about Britain, they simply have money vested and worry about speculation and uncertainty decreasing their profits.

Britain is imprisoned by EU hopes that don't prosper. We have no power in Brussels, we cannot overrule, we cannot elect or dismiss- Brussels overrules us. We didn't win 2 World Wars to surrender to Germany, because let's face it, Germany rules the EU. The EU is impoverished- full of poor nations with huge unemployment and Britain and Germany propping it up. Things will only get worse under EU rule. Greece should never have been allowed to join and is broke, Italy will be next.

We don't need politicians to blind us with statistics because we can see and feel ourselves the strain our services are under. The government has no control over movement of people and we cannot take members of our Commonwealth with skills and education because we're forced by EU to have open doors to EU- there're no places for anyone else.

EU is in decline while Britain is slowly growing. EU is hugely bureaucratic and takes upto 10 years to pass trade deals we can get in months. EU blocks us from trading with anyone else besides them. We have valuable partners in China and India we could be dealing with. Britain will not suffer from punitive tarifs from the EU as they sell us more than we sell them, they need us to buy their cheeses, wines and cars. Britain will retain trade, will not require free movement to do so and will take back Sovereignty and trade with the rest of the World and enjoy partnering with its Commonwealth. Any drop in the Pound will do us good making us attractive to buyers, and growth will pick up as will the currency.

Immigration will still exist but we will be able to control it better and make our own laws. We cannot deal with EU, the 28 members will not agree with our wishes so we must leave. EU is weakening our military. Troops must spread thinly to cover EU zones in addition to their UK missions reducing effectiveness and increasing cost.

Remain talks about workers' rights, but the EU causes the lowest to rise and other tiers to drop, making it harder for businesses and decreasing overall wealth (and who exactly fills those lowest paying jobs?) Remain also talks about cheaper products, but this costs Britain as it must lower prices in line with poor EU nations while operating at higher cost.

We have no space for housing or schools, can we afford open doors? Of course not.

If Britain stays in EU, America will eventually infiltrate our country and NHS with GMO and sue Government/NHS for refusing to trade under the new EU-US trade partnership. The PM claims he exempted the NHS from the trade deal, but this exemption is not on paper confirmed.

Countries that do better, are required to pay more into the EU wasteful budget. Considering EU is much bigger and poorer than Britain, Germany and France, this does not look good for Britain which is trying to recover its growth as other nations will start to default. The EU imposes sanctions on nations that don't follow suit- this is not what I want for Great Britain. EU is big, but it is a basket case and it will drag us down with it, kicking and screaming. We were only given the EU referendum because the PM was required to do so for his position within the Party; there's no guarantee he will honour the result- he may call for a second vote if he's unhappy with Leave winning. We must grab the chance to get out while we have that option. The next referendum could be 50 years away.

Parts of UK (like Wales) see some money from EU and so think EU remain is best. It's not, since the UK as a whole prospers generally when London prospers as that's where wealth tends to generate. Hit London, the heart of the UK, and the coffers will be smaller.

Remainers claim Leaving will cause recession. This is disingenuous. Britain is heading for recession regardless, in or out will not change this.

Not that I believe the scare mongering, but I'd happily pay a little every year to have control back and not live under an undemocratic Elitist Globalist Superstate dictatorship. Quality of life and Democracy is what I want. A vote for EU is little more than Communism.

I have kindly put in bold all your fear mongering statements. Despite you opening the comment by complaining about the remain sides fear mongering.

 

[Howardh]

I have kindly put in bold all your fear mongering statements. Despite you opening the comment by complaining about the remain sides fear mongering.

It's interesting about "American infiltration". Er, just how much are we selling this country off to the Chinese? Russians?? Arabs???

 

[TheKnightWho]

Don't worry, I stopped assuming that long ago.
For the fifth time, I have answered your Irish question.
Do you need me to make it six ?

Except you haven't answered it. You've just deflected it again and again and again.

What is your answer to the Northern Irish problem if we leave the EU? Saying "it's not up to me" is just avoiding responsibility, when we all know you are voting Brexit.

But yes, you keep assuring yourself you're clever, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Flying_Turtle]

Well... let me join you in the arena of this roman circus:
The probable outcome of this referendum is that UK will vote to leave. This ain t necessarily bad or uncertain as what will probably happen is a downgrade to an EEA associate, as Switzerland/Norway/Iceland, which from the day to day point of view, for us common people,will not mean significant changes.For the ones voting leave on immigration grounds, this will mean that your vote will not stop the flow of immigrants as ifyou want free trade with the EU you must accept the free flow of people (and if you still insist the UK is big etc etc etc remember:, Switzerland has accepted the free flow of people and those guys like even less of immigrants even less than the BNP).

The big problem in the UK is the lack of internal control as it is not obliged to give benefits migrants and the NHS simply doesn t ID people properly! People can be forced to return to their countries if after 3 months they don t have a job and means of self sustaince. Also, if an EU citizen neeeds to use the health services an European Health Insurance Card can be demanded for ID purposes and charging to the home country.The NHS has chosen not to do this...
So who s fault is it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Except you haven't answered it. You've just deflected it again and again and again.

What is your answer to the Northern Irish problem if we leave the EU? Saying "it's not up to me" is just avoiding responsibility, when we all know you are voting Brexit.

But yes, you keep assuring yourself you're clever, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

Just my two pence here....

The UK will have a heck of a problem in NI if it strays away too much from the EU (like not even staying in the EEA). The EU acts as a calming effect with their powers (basically they insure that there is no discrimination amobg territories ) and if it goes away... well... lets see!

 

[Aldaniti]

I'm not taking anything for granted, despite recent polling showing a balance in favour of Leave. Anything can happen between now and next Thursday and so its vital that as many people with convictions pointing towards Leave turn out to vote. The very real danger of a vote to Remain is still possible.

 

[Flying_Turtle]

Then I have good news for you:
Usually the voters who want the change are much more prone to go and vote than the ones who prefer the current situation.
Human nature at its best... so Leave will probably win with an even greater margin than statistics predict

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not taking anything for granted, despite recent polling showing a balance in favour of Leave. Anything can happen between now and next Thursday and so its vital that as many people with convictions pointing towards Leave turn out to vote. The very real danger of a vote to Remain is still possible.

It is vital that everybody votes, unless they genuinely hold no opinion, and are equally happy with both outcomes.

A near 100% turnout would be most welcome, whichever way it goes.

 

[Aldaniti]

It is vital that everybody votes, unless they genuinely hold no opinion, and are equally happy with both outcomes.

A near 100% turnout would be most welcome, whichever way it goes.

Yes, I do agree with that Neil - of course - but obviously I'm hoping for a Leave vote.

According to informed Labour Party sources, postal votes returned from Lancashire, and some other areas in the South of England, are suggesting a significant margin in favour of Leave.

 

[Johnuk123]

The polls have not changed much for weeks and Remain should win by 5-10 points, all the ditherers will vote for no change because ditherers always do.

 

[Aldaniti]

Then I have good news for you:
Usually the voters who want the change are much more prone to go and vote than the ones who prefer the current situation.
Human nature at its best... so Leave will probably win with an even greater margin than statistics predict

I certainly hope that proves to be the case

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Out of EU.

All the remain campaign is based on fear mongering. All those "respected bodies": IMF, Global Banks, Commissions- are in bed with Globalists. They want the world under one Government, they don't care about Britain, they simply have money vested and worry about speculation and uncertainty decreasing their profits.

Britain is imprisoned by EU hopes that don't prosper. We have no power in Brussels, we cannot overrule, we cannot elect or dismiss- Brussels overrules us. We didn't win 2 World Wars to surrender to Germany, because let's face it, Germany rules the EU.

<snip>

If Britain stays in EU, America will eventually infiltrate our country and NHS with GMO and sue Government/NHS for refusing to trade under the new EU-US trade partnership. The PM claims he exempted the NHS from the trade deal, but this exemption is not on paper confirmed.

<snip>

Not that I believe the scare mongering, but I'd happily pay a little every year to have control back and not live under an undemocratic Elitist Globalist Superstate dictatorship. Quality of life and Democracy is what I want. A vote for EU is little more than Communism.

You forgot to mention the thing about the EU being a plot by space aliens to take over and consume the Earth, using Germany as a proxy, and about how Elvis is still alive and working behind the scenes to effect America's takeover of England.

 

[TheKnightWho]

You forgot to mention the thing about the EU being a plot by space aliens to take over and consume the Earth, using Germany as a proxy, and about how Elvis is still alive and working behind the scenes to effect America's takeover of England.

No no - the foreign policy of 75 years ago is far more important!

 

[Harbornite]

You forgot to mention the thing about the EU being a plot by space aliens to take over and consume the Earth, using Germany as a proxy, and about how Elvis is still alive and working behind the scenes to effect America's takeover of England.

I'm surprised that we haven't heard more accusations that that the judeo-zionist unicorns are using the EU as a tool to control the world with mind-control techniques. Rule no.1 of every conspiracy: blame the Jews.

 

[Flying_Turtle]

I certainly hope that proves to be the case

but you should read my previous post
Also, the leave will need an expressive majority in an expressive turnout to be accepted. (And please... no whining, this is too serious). If you have 60% in a 60% turnout it might not be enough (as the referedum is not legally binding) so you will need political legitimacy (this is a non biased opinion although i assume I am a stay supporter)

 

[Aldaniti]

but you should read my previous post
Also, the leave will need an expressive majority in an expressive turnout to be accepted. (And please... no whining, this is too serious). If you have 60% in a 60% turnout it might not be enough (as the referedum is not legally binding) so you will need political legitimacy (this is a non biased opinion although i assume I am a stay supporter)

Oh, I did!

 

[Gutfright]

I'm surprised that we haven't heard more accusations that that the judeo-zionist unicorns are using the EU as a tool to control the world with mind-control techniques. Rule no.1 of every conspiracy: blame the Jews.

Oh, put that card back in the deck!

 

[Johnuk123]

You forgot to mention the thing about the EU being a plot by space aliens to take over and consume the Earth, using Germany as a proxy, and about how Elvis is still alive and working behind the scenes to effect America's takeover of England.

All things similar to your wish for a world without any borders whatsoever.

 

[Howardh]

Well... let me join you in the arena of this roman circus:
The probable outcome of this referendum is that UK will vote to leave. This ain t necessarily bad or uncertain as what will probably happen is a downgrade to an EEA associate, as Switzerland/Norway/Iceland, which from the day to day point of view, for us common people,will not mean significant changes.For the ones voting leave on immigration grounds, this will mean that your vote will not stop the flow of immigrants as ifyou want free trade with the EU you must accept the free flow of people (and if you still insist the UK is big etc etc etc remember:, Switzerland has accepted the free flow of people and those guys like even less of immigrants even less than the BNP).

The big problem in the UK is the lack of internal control as it is not obliged to give benefits migrants and the NHS simply doesn t ID people properly! People can be forced to return to their countries if after 3 months they don t have a job and means of self sustaince. Also, if an EU citizen neeeds to use the health services an European Health Insurance Card can be demanded for ID purposes and charging to the home country.The NHS has chosen not to do this...
So who s fault is it?

Best post I've read in the whole debate!
1. There aren't enough anti-EU MP's to stop us sliding seamlessly into the EEA - at least I hope so, so as alluded to, we can carry on as normal.
2. The NHS does seem lax at finding out who should pay for foreigner's treatment - EU or otherwise. Now I don't want us to be like the US and ask "credit card? Good, now what are your injuries?" - at least not with urgent cases BUT I can't see why, once patients details are taken and they have the EHIC (sp?) card, charging their country and if they don't pay up within 3 months, subtract that amount from the levy we pay the EU + administration charge. Non-EU's should be fully insured.

 

[Steveman]

You keep assuring yourself you're clever, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about

Your list of posters who have no idea what they're talking about must be getting to quite enormous proportions by now as hardly a day goes by when you don't mention it.

 

[Gutfright]

The funny thing is that I'm sure a few of the left-leaning remainers probably do see TTIP as a corporate conspiracy to undermine democracy, but feel compelled to defend it because it is now part of 'their' side.

 

[Antman]

OMG......................the irony

 

[Bletchleyite]

The funny thing is that I'm sure a few of the left-leaning remainers probably do see TTIP as a corporate conspiracy to undermine democracy, but feel compelled to defend it because it is now part of 'their' side.

TTIP is a red herring. If we wish to trade with the USA, which we almost certainly do, we are stuck with it.

 

[Johnuk123]

Just proves how impartial some of these "impartial" organisations continually mentioned by the Leave side as beyond reproach really are.
The LSE has put out a string of pro-EU reports and now it's quite possible they have been paid for.

Kids Company paid LSE £40,000 for positive report

Kids Company paid the London School of Economics £40,000 for a report that described it in glowing terms and made the case for more government funding within months of ministers raising the alarm about the charity.
The study, which was often cited by the failed children’s charity as independent evidence that it was a well-run and successful organisation, heaped praise on Kids Company and its founder, Camila Batmanghelidjh. It described the charity’s work as an “exemplary model of psychosocial scaffolding”.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4525691.ece

 

[Flying_Turtle]

​

​

Best post I've read in the whole debate!
1. There aren't enough anti-EU MP's to stop us sliding seamlessly into the EEA - at least I hope so, so as alluded to, we can carry on as normal.
2. The NHS does seem lax at finding out who should pay for foreigner's treatment - EU or otherwise. Now I don't want us to be like the US and ask "credit card? Good, now what are your injuries?" - at least not with urgent cases BUT I can't see why, once patients details are taken and they have the EHIC (sp?) card, charging their country and if they don't pay up within 3 months, subtract that amount from the levy we pay the EU + administration charge. Non-EU's should be fully insured.

Those things are completely written down and Spain certainly does it (Portugal i am not sure but there was a long standing agreement from 1979, superceeded by the EU but still valid on the isle of Man/Guernsey/Jersey, regarding social security which may influence practices as Portugal asks for the EHIC and asks the token fees to the patient but the old agreement spoke nothing about payements between states so it is probable that Portugal doesn t charge the UK as the UK doesn t charge it).
God forbids an US (un)health approach!!!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Just proves how impartial some of these "impartial" organisations continually mentioned by the Leave side as beyond reproach really are.
The LSE has put out a string of pro-EU reports and now it's quite possible they have been paid for.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4525691.ece

*sigh* Have you ever perhaps considered making any effort to even try to find out the facts before you post silly conspiracy theories? The report you are talking about is this one. A cursory flick through it will reveal that it is concerned with the effectiveness of Kid's Company's work with children, which have as far as I'm aware not been found particularly faulty. The problem at Kid's Company was its poor financial practice, which was not the subject of the report, so it's hardly surprising that the report didn't comment on that. There's therefore no particular reason to believe that the report was biased or inaccurate. It said that Kid's Company's methods were effective. Noone else, to my knowledge, has contradicted that.

It took me less than 5 minutes to find all that out. Probably less time than it took you to write your ill-informed post. Perhaps your time would be better spent making more effort to check things out before you comment on them?

As for the fact that Kid's Company paid £40K for the report. Where do you think the money to pay for the research and reports that academic and expert institutions produce comes from? Do you imagine it magically appears out of the ether? Of course, if you want an institution to do some research on some area, you need to pay for them to do that research. That doesn't by itself make the research biased. Most Universities etc. have very strong traditions of looking into evidence impartially.

Kid's Company has been criticised for paying for the report - and that doesn't surprise me particularly because if you're a cash-strapped charity, paying £40K for a report like this doesn't at first sight seem like a particularly good use of the money you've been given. But that's an issue with Kid's Company, not with the London School of Economics, and it's certainly not a reason to doubt the research that various institutions have conducted into the possible impact of a Brexit.

 

[Harbornite]

Oh, put that card back in the deck!

Are you aware of the concept of humour? Anyway there are plenty of brexiters fools on twitter who have actually played the "zionist" card, although twitter is a bit of a cesspit in this regard and shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[EM2]

Just proves how impartial some of these "impartial" organisations continually mentioned by the Leave side as beyond reproach really are.
The LSE has put out a string of pro-EU reports and now it's quite possible they have been paid for.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4525691.ece

EU referendum: Think-tanks conducting 'independent' research to support Brexit have close links to Vote Leave

Supposedly “independent” research being used to make the case against Britain’s membership of the European Union is being carried out by think-tanks with close links to one of the main leave campaigns.

In recent weeks anti-EU campaigners have highlighted studies carried out by the think-tanks Civitas and the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) which, they claim, independently make the case for Brexit.

But an analysis of the connections between the think-tanks and the Vote Leave campaign reveals a nexus of right-of-centre organisations whose staff, board members and, in one case, offices are closely linked.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...port-brexit-have-close-links-to-a6866011.html

 

[Mvann]

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that this referendum is majorly flawed. Everything I have seen so far is being based on the EU as it is now. So although it maybe better to stay in now, it may not be in the future. It doesn't help matters if Britain doesn't know what it actually really wants. What is being argued is either about levels of immigration or that of its usefulness as a trade association. The EU stopped being just a trade association when it ceased to be the EEC. If the EUs hopes and aims are anything to go by, a) are they succeeding, and b) is it what we want.