Should We Leave the EU?

[Steveman]

Eddie Izzard is male.

Really ?

 

[EM2]

Really ?

:roll:
Yes.

 

[Johnuk123]

Eddie Izzard is male.

Assuming he is a man why on earth do Remain use him surely they don't think he's an asset as he really isn't he's just a total turn-off.

 

[theironroad]

I knew somebody would stick up for her, the audience reaction was pretty spot on as she was ridiculed and by trying to shock just looked a complete fool.
Do you think anybody undecided would have been impressed by her ranting and going off topic and waving her arms like an idiot and decide to stay in ?
I think if the Remainers have another car crash of a show like that one that will tip the balance even more to Leave. it was obvious the BBC had put Izzard next to Farage to provoke him unfortunately it fell very flat as Izzard was shown up for what she is - a very very unfunny exhibitionist.

Well if you use pejorative terms like 'that weirdo woman's then expect a reaction.

I do actually agree with the first audience person who shouted shut up as Eddie was getting a bit out of control with constant barracking of Nigel Farage and there was a second or two when it looked like Dimbleby was going to lose control of the whole thing, which he recognised by his 'the audience will walk out /brexit' comment which seemed to restore some normality.

 

[Howardh]

Exactly - it was at a time when the rest of Europe didn't have an automatic right to live in Ireland. Now that they do, it's a completely different scenario.

I don't see how it would be tenable for two countries to have massively different immigration rules and a completely open border, but there are an enormous amount of details to work out before this might become a reality.


You could always look it up and see what it actually was...

The fact is, the Irish Republic doesn't have an open border with the rest of Europe. You may well have a diffusion of EU nationals in Ireland with a right to travel across the border, but their right to settle in the UK would be determined by the law in the UK at the time.

What you would be much less likely to have would be the sort of build up of non-EU nationals as happens at Calais as that would require an open border with the rest of Europe.

I therefore put it that the common travel area will still be with us, regardless of the referendum outcome.

Many people wish to restrict immigration to the UK from within Europe.
However, Europeans will still have an automatic right to enter Ireland, and from there they could enter the UK without any further checks.
It may not be legal for them to come and work in the UK, but without any border checks, what can you do about it?

Do you mean if there was a closed border between the UK & Ireland?

I think that entirely depends on what sort of immigration policy the UK was to decide on afterwards. If it were to be as restrictive as some people want, then I can't see how having an open border to the EU could possibly be workable, but there are lots of currently unknown variables.

On the plus side for Brexit, Ireland can filter out citizens from, say Syria, as they require Visas (and so do many other countrys citizens) so it should be a good external EU barrier.

However EU and EAA citizens that would be unwelcome in the UK post-Brexit will be perfectly allowed into Ireland, and then cross at will and unchallenged into the UK via the North. As alluded to, they would have difficulty finding legitimate work, and little chance of welfare, but the major issue is they would be *hidden* and (1) could well be terrorists in a worst-case senario (2) gain unlawful low-paid -with cash - work thus depriving a legitimate UK citizen same.
We could strengthen checks between Norn and Great Britain, but even so the minimum of ID would be required unless we force photo-ID on pax, and that ID could be easily faked.
A much easier, and safer passage than a dodgy boat in the Channel?
The obvious solution is to close that border with a wall and checkpoints.
Now, consider you are Irish; do you want a fortified border built and manned by the UK across your land?
Consider you are English, would you like the EU to build a fortified border separating North and South England, manned by foriegners?
Exactly.
We would re-ignite the troubles in an instant.

 

[DarloRich]

Assuming he is a man why on earth do Remain use him surely they don't think he's an asset as he really isn't he's just a total turn-off.

Unlike say, Jim Davidson, he is a well educated multi lingual comedian with long standing pro European views and a large following across a wide demographic base. I can see why he might be used............

Although the main problem for some posters seems to be the issue of his transvestism.

 

[EM2]

Assuming he is a man why on earth do Remain use him surely they don't think he's an asset as he really isn't he's just a total turn-off.

Because despite what some people think, he is a very popular comedian, and has also gained a very high profile because of a number of charity exploits.
Whether you like it or not, a lot of people will listen to what he says.
But then, what well-known people have Leave got arguing their side?

 

[tony_mac]

I have undertaken a project try and seek out the kind of impartial information i want on this important topic and have done a lot of reading over the last few days having filtered out as much of the wibble, froth and dog whisltes that the politicians are spouting as possible.

I am still unsure how I will vote although my concerns are really broken down as follows:

1) Financial contribution to the EU v financial returns from the EU

2) The economy/employment - better in or out?

3) Employees rights - do i trust the likes of Gove/IDS/Boris etc to protect and enhance them (No!)

4) Closer union - do our opt outs provide us with a mechanism to decide our future membership?

5) Human rights - do i trust the likes of Gove/IDS/Boris etc to protect and enhance those rights (No!)

EU Immigration, border control, sovereignty etc don't really worry me. The European migrants are said to be a net contributor to our economy. It strikes me that those immigrants aren't the ones we should worry about!

You aren't supposed to be actually finding out facts!
1) There is a substantial financial contribution. Without counting the returns, it's about 1% of GDP, or 2% of the country's tax income.
The spending return has generally been somewhere around 50%, but it varies somewhat from year to year. The Common Agricultural Policy is where a lot of the money goes (also regional development funds and research).
2) That's obviously a huge debate! Presumably the vast majority of workers already in the UK would be given a visa, so I expect little would change in the short term. I think a lot of employers would be stuffed if they suddenly lost a lot of their best workers.
3) I'll leave that to you! I do remember forecasts of doom when we introduced the working time directive and the minimum wage (not EU), but disaster didn't happen and both seem to be widely accepted now.
4) I don't know any of the details! Obviously, we can always leave in the future if things were to get even more untenable.
5) I doubt that they will do anything too bad in the near future, but Trump's popularity has me nervous about what an electorate may consider reasonable.

 

[Johnuk123]

Because despite what some people think, he is a very popular comedian, and has also gained a very high profile because of a number of charity exploits.
Whether you like it or not, a lot of people will listen to what he says.
But then, what well-known people have Leave got arguing their side?

The more famous you are the more important you are - I see, well if you reckon Tony Blair is the type of person you're talking about I'm glad he's on your side.

 

[miami]

[citation needed]

Just have a look on social media

People wake up Turkey is not European Country It is Muslim Country , why should be with Europe ? Has nothing to do with Europe they hate us and if they join Europe we will be in a big danger and a big trouble , WAKE UP PLEASE WAKE UP WAKE UP

Johnny Allan Make no mistake, a vote to stay in the EU will be seen as a mandate to allow Turkey and several other countries to join the EU.

There will be no other opportunities to stop this. We joined a nine country 'Common Market', not one of us had a say about the nineteen countries that have joined since.

All future countries that join the EU will have weaker economies than us so we will have to subsidise them whilst taking millions of immigrants.

If we need immigration, we need to take only what we need, when we need them, not criminals and the unskilled or those who cannot or have no intention of working.

Cameron has stated that immigration should only be in the tens of thousands and anything more damages the UK. He must admit that the only way to achieve this is to leave the EU.

This is your last chance, vote LEAVE on Independence Day or surrender your country!

Andrew Parker Even if it takes a decade to get Turkey into the EU, this will be our last Referendum before that to have a public vito (and we may never be allowed another one ever!). It makes you think about all of the changes in the EU that will happen in our future that we WON'T be able to do anything about. Turkey joining is just a taster (excuse the pun!).

We need to vote out - close the borders, send the bloody lot back who we have already taken, otherwise what is happening in Germany raping young girls will happen hear and Camcon will not save you - its in his plan for muslims to rule in Great Britain, all the media is for the muslims so we dont have a chance unless we fight for our right

Beverley Hennessy Britain needs to pull out of the EU now germany will be the leader and all the millions of refugees that have enteredeurope will be sent to Britain they will bevome a muslim country don't let this happen wake up now britain

 

[EM2]

The more famous you are the more important you are - I see, well if you reckon Tony Blair is the type of person you're talking about I'm glad he's on your side.

Not what I said.
So people aren't supposed to listen to Eddie Izzard speaking for Remain, but should listen to Boris Johnson speaking for Leave? I can't think of anyone whose opinion I'd want to listen to less.

 

[Railops]

Unlike say, Jim Davidson, he is a well educated multi lingual comedian with long standing pro European views and a large following across a wide demographic base. I can see why he might be used............

Although the main problem for some posters seems to be the issue of his transvestism.

He was on Jeremy Vine recently and talked utter tripe and my wife actually remarked that she couldn't imagine anybody other than the Labour party's Metropolitan Elite luvvies who would listen to him and not simply laugh.
Labour has removed Russell Brand from the campaign and managed to introduce somebody even more comical.

 

[yorksrob]

Many people wish to restrict immigration to the UK from within Europe.
However, Europeans will still have an automatic right to enter Ireland, and from there they could enter the UK without any further checks.
It may not be legal for them to come and work in the UK, but without any border checks, what can you do about it?

Do you mean if there was a closed border between the UK & Ireland?

I think that entirely depends on what sort of immigration policy the UK was to decide on afterwards. If it were to be as restrictive as some people want, then I can't see how having an open border to the EU could possibly be workable, but there are lots of currently unknown variables.

Some people may want those restrictions, but I don't expect a Brexit would result in the UK imposing onerous travel restrictions on EU citizens per se, rather some attempt to restrict the right to employment once here (if anything). These sorts of things don't tend to be resolved at the border anyway.

 

[tony_mac]

Well, vote leave have the support of Roy Chubby Brown
http://newsthump.com/2016/05/20/vote-leave-publish-letter-of-support-from-roy-chubby-brown/

(It's mildly NSFW, and yes, it's a joke!)

 

[yorksrob]

But what happens if post-Brexit Ireland decides that its future lies in closer integration with the EU rather than in keeping the common travel area with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And if the figures work out so that Scotland demands a new independence referendum and then votes to leave the UK, where does that leave Ireland and Scotland against what's left?

The priority for the Republic has always been cross border integration with the North, for cultural as well as economic reasons and I don't see any likelihood of that changing.

They may be on firmer ground regarding the issue of a Scottish referendum though.

 

[tony_mac]

Some people may want those restrictions, but I don't expect a Brexit would result in the UK imposing onerous travel restrictions on EU citizens per se, rather some attempt to restrict the right to employment once here (if anything). These sorts of things don't tend to be resolved at the border anyway.

No, I don't think the UK would want to impose onerous travel restrictions, but something would need to be done to better control immigration.

Border enforcement is currently quite a significant part of immigration control.
(e.g., more people are refused entry at the border than are forcibly removed from the country.)

 

[ExRes]

Just have a look on social media

Any particular reason you've put this rubbish on here?, are you trying to say everyone who wants Britain out of the EU behaves in this way?

 

[northwichcat]

But the UK contributed over €8 billion to the EU in 1996, so I should ruddy well hope that they gave us a little of our own money back to help rebuild after a terrorist attack.

1996 was also the year of a BSE outbreak which the EU provided billions towards and further money in to research to prevent a repeat. Being outside of the EU would seen exports of British beef banned without EU compensation and possibly the end of cattle farming in the UK.

 

[Johnuk123]

1996 was also the year of a BSE outbreak which the EU provided billions towards and further money in to research to prevent a repeat. Being outside of the EU would seen exports of British beef banned without EU compensation and possibly the end of cattle farming in the UK.

Can you tell us where this "EU" money came from ?

 

[tony_mac]

Can you tell us where this "EU" money came from ?

The taxpayers of the EU?

 

[Railops]

I knew somebody would stick up for her, the audience reaction was pretty spot on as she was ridiculed and by trying to shock just looked a complete fool.
Do you think anybody undecided would have been impressed by her ranting and going off topic and waving her arms like an idiot and decide to stay in ?
I think if the Remainers have another car crash of a show like that one that will tip the balance even more to Leave. it was obvious the BBC had put Izzard next to Farage to provoke him unfortunately it fell very flat as Izzard was shown up for what she is - a very very unfunny exhibitionist.

He is certainly the ultimate exhibitionist and when he's away from his groupies looks lost amongst ordinary people.When the woman in the audience mentioned English culture and he shouted "rubbish" simply shows him up as yet another one of the luvvie "English haters" of which there are many.

 

[miami]

Any particular reason you've put this rubbish on here?, are you trying to say everyone who wants Britain out of the EU behaves in this way?

No, I said many people, and was asked for a source.

These people will be very disapointed when non-eu immigration doesn't change (or perhaps even grows as skilled workers from the EU don't bother jumping through the hoops, and go and work in Italy instead, and we have to get the second-best candidate who's actually from Japan).

They'll be even more disappointed if France pulls out of

Or we might just stay in the EEA like Norway and let everyone in. Perhaps we'll even become part of Schengen, like Iceland, Switzerland and Norway.

There's going to be a lot of unhappy people by the end of the year if we vote brexit.

 

[Johnuk123]

The taxpayers of the EU?

I thought it was from the EU benevolent society who dish out their own money to good casuses.
Are you saying it's not actually from the EU then but is in fact simply being returned to where it originally came from.

 

[tony_mac]

I thought it was from the EU benevolent society who dish out their own money to good casuses.
Are you saying it's not actually from the EU then but is in fact simply being returned to where it originally came from.

I'm guessing that you are not an economist...

 

[EM2]

When the woman in the audience mentioned English culture and he shouted "rubbish" simply shows him up as yet another one of the luvvie "English haters" of which there are many.

a. what is 'English culture' and
b. what relevance does that have to a question of whether the UK as a whole leaves the EU?

 

[miami]

I thought it was from the EU benevolent society who dish out their own money to good casuses.
Are you saying it's not actually from the EU then but is in fact simply being returned to where it originally came from.

Where does the westminster money come from then? I thought it came from the personal stash of the millionaire cabinet.

 

[Muttley]

You could always look it up and see what it actually was...

Yep, both questions required a Yes/No response.
So it looks very much like to me that EM2 lied about the people voting on the clauses.

 

[Steveman]

Just shows the contempt the Remainers have for the voting public, somebody should explain to the Baroness what exactly a referendum is.

 

[tony_mac]

Yep, both questions required a Yes/No response.
So it looks very much like to me that EM2 lied about the people voting on the clauses.

You said it was 'in out' referendum, have you changed your mind about that?

(And no, EM2 did not say that people voted on the clauses - I am getting the impression that understanding vaguely subtle arguments isn't really your strong point).

 

[DarloRich]

He was on Jeremy Vine recently and talked utter tripe and my wife actually remarked that she couldn't imagine anybody other than the Labour party's Metropolitan Elite luvvies who would listen to him and not simply laugh.
Labour has removed Russell Brand from the campaign and managed to introduce somebody even more comical.

whilst I am sure you are right I wonder if you have ever attended any of his stage shows? They are very funny.

Shall we perhaps call it a draw and move on when the best the outies can dig up is Jim Davidson?