Should We Leave the EU?

[Antman]

Farage tells it like he wishes it were.

Oh my goodness, if ever there were a case of the pot calling the kettle

 

[Johnuk123]

Oh my goodness, if ever there were a case of the pot calling the kettle

Very true.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Oh my goodness, if ever there were a case of the pot calling the kettle

I don't think you've ever provided a meaningful statement about anything I've ever said on this forum. You just constantly call me a hypocrite without ever actually saying why.

You're a damage to your own cause, honestly.

 

[Steveman]

Farage tells it like he wishes it were.

You would never do that would you ? :roll:

 

[TheKnightWho]

Seems I kicked the hornets nest Pretty telling that you're all raving and frothing at the mouths: I think I hit a nerve.

 

[Antman]

Seems I kicked the hornets nest Pretty telling that you're all raving and frothing at the mouths: I think I hit a nerve.

Yeah right................dream on

 

[TheKnightWho]

Yeah right................dream on

No, I'm pretty sure I'm telling it how it is.

 

[Steveman]

As Cameron is refusing to do any proper debate it would have been interesting to ask him how many EU jobseekers have been removed under the 6 month rule that has been in place for a couple of years.
As no mechanism exists to remove anybody and as the Home Office conveniently doesn't keep figures I would suggest probably nobody.

 

[Howardh]

As Cameron is refusing to do any proper debate it would have been interesting to ask him how many EU jobseekers have been removed under the 6 month rule that has been in place for a couple of years.
As no mechanism exists to remove anybody and as the Home Office conveniently doesn't keep figures I would suggest probably nobody.

Yes, probably none, there probably isn't the infrastructure to do this.
So question for post Brexit (assuming we don't join the EAA)
What mechanisms will be in place to do the above, how much will it cost per person, will the citizen have a right of appeal to a court, how long will that take, what do the authorities intend doing with their wives/children who could also be here (maybe legally, maybe illegally), where will the money to fund this come from and what if they return back through the open Irish border?

 

[Johnuk123]

Considering we've known about this referendum for literally ages and the registration website has been opened for 2 months why should it matter if people trying to register at 2hrs before closing fail to do so.
It's the same situation you find in an airport when people return from shopping and find the plane has gone without them as they were "only 5 mins late"

They have now extended the closing time for the website so if it crashes again today how long do they keep extending it for ?

As we're continually told that younger voters being a bit slow on the uptake but likely to vote to Remain are the ones who haven't registered in time how very very convenient for the Govt. that this website is now live again.
All the people I've seen on the tv today like Farron and Corbyn saying it should be reopened are all on the Remain side, I wonder why that is.
It was down for less than 2 hrs so it should be back on for 2 hrs, a legal challenge must now be very likely.

 

[EM2]

Considering we've known about this referendum for literally ages and the registration website has been opened for 2 months why should it matter if people trying to register at 2hrs before closing fail to do so.
It's the same situation you find in an airport when people return from shopping and find the plane has gone without them as they were "only 5 mins late"

Except it isn't the same situation
They only failed to register because the technology failed.
If you'd got to the airport gate in time, but the computer system failed and the plane still went on time, leaving you behind, you'd be a bit annoyed.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Considering we've known about this referendum for literally ages and the registration website has been opened for 2 months why should it matter if people trying to register at 2hrs before closing fail to do so.
It's the same situation you find in an airport when people return from shopping and find the plane has gone without them as they were "only 5 mins late"

They have now extended the closing time for the website so if it crashes again today how long do they keep extending it for ?

As we're continually told that younger voters being a bit slow on the uptake but likely to vote to Remain are the ones who haven't registered in time how very very convenient for the Govt. that this website is now live again.
All the people I've seen on the tv today like Farron and Corbyn saying it should be reopened are all on the Remain side, I wonder why that is.
It was down for less than 2 hrs so it should be back on for 2 hrs, a legal challenge must now be very likely.

If a train leaves 5 minutes early, you would likely be annoyed if that caused you to miss it.

Considering your last paragraph, I suspect you're only annoyed because it means people likely to vote remain weren't disenfranchised. So much for you caring about democracy.

 

[DarloRich]

Considering we've known about this referendum for literally ages and the registration website has been opened for 2 months why should it matter if people trying to register at 2hrs before closing fail to do so.
It's the same situation you find in an airport when people return from shopping and find the plane has gone without them as they were "only 5 mins late"

but it isn't the same is it? You must see that! They weren't late. They tried to register before the deadline. It matters not if it was 2 months or 2 minutes, as long as it was before the deadline. The technology let them down.

They have now extended the closing time for the website so if it crashes again today how long do they keep extending it for ?

That is the point, which again you must be able to recognize. Extending the deadline until Thursday spreads out demand and reduces the chances of another crash. Your idea to open the site for only two hours would lead to potential problems very quickly.

As we're continually told that younger voters being a bit slow on the uptake but likely to vote to Remain are the ones who haven't registered in time how very very convenient for the Govt. that this website is now live again.
All the people I've seen on the tv today like Farron and Corbyn saying it should be reopened are all on the Remain side, I wonder why that is.
It was down for less than 2 hrs so it should be back on for 2 hrs, a legal challenge must now be very likely.

What are you worried about? Insufficient elderly little engenders to ensure victory?

Surely it is better everyone interested should have a chance to take part. The great cry of the brexitier is the protection of British democracy. Odd how when there is a chance that democracy might not generate the desired result it becomes a bad thing!

 

[Johnuk123]

A 2hr website crash should not mean a 48 hr extension, if the Govt. had any feeling this would hurt them there would have been no extension you can be sure.
Gerrymandering at it's finest.

 

[TheKnightWho]

A 2hr website crash should not mean a 48 hr extension, if the Govt. had any feeling this would hurt them there would have been no extension you can be sure.
Gerrymandering at it's finest.

How is this gerrymandering? No-one is disadvantaged by this at all, assuming we all want the result to be truly representative of the population at large.

The only people I see objecting are Brexiters, who want to disenfranchise people by technical appeals to arbitrary rules. If anything is gerrymandering, that is.

 

[ExRes]

Rather than everyone getting hot under the collar, surely the question should be why have so many people left it until the last second to register, it's hardly as though the referendum is a surprise event

I was reading a few days ago that a website, specifically set up to get people to register I believe, had in excess of either 3000 or 30000 hits, I honestly can't remember which, and they estimated that only 10 visitors had gone on to register because people had no idea what their National Insurance numbers were or where to find them, with that level of intelligence should they actually be allowed to vote?

For all the screaming on here, perhaps by extending the deadline Cameron may well allow just as many, or more, people to vote Out than In, now wouldn't that be a blow for him

 

[TheKnightWho]

Rather than everyone getting hot under the collar, surely the question should be why have so many people left it until the last second to register, it's hardly as though the referendum is a surprise event

I was reading a few days ago that a website, specifically set up to get people to register I believe, had in excess of either 3000 or 30000 hits, I honestly can't remember which, and they estimated that only 10 visitors had gone on to register because people had no idea what their National Insurance numbers were or where to find them, with that level of intelligence should they actually be allowed to vote?

For all the screaming on here, perhaps by extending the deadline Cameron may well allow just as many, or more, people to vote Out than In, now wouldn't that be a blow for him

Not by the statistics of who's been signing up for the past few days. Under 35s have absolutely dominated.

 

[ExRes]

Not by the statistics of who's been signing up for the past few days. Under 35s have absolutely dominated.

And you're sure that these 'Under 35s' are all going to vote Remain?, I happen to know a number of 'Under 35s' who are quite adamant that they will vote Leave, I also know 'Over 50s' who are stating that they will vote Remain and 'Over 50s' who are voting Leave, age grouping is most certainly not the be all and end all of decision making

 

[TheKnightWho]

And you're sure that these 'Under 35s' are all going to vote Remain?, I happen to know a number of 'Under 35s' who are quite adamant that they will vote Leave, I also know 'Over 50s' who are stating that they will vote Remain and 'Over 50s' who are voting Leave, age grouping is most certainly not the be all and end all of decision making

No-one is arguing that 100% of under-35s will vote remain, or that 100% of over-50s will vote leave. That would be dumb.

On the other hand, it is obvious by the fact that the outrage over this is purely coming from the Brexit camp that there is a common conception of under 35s generally supporting remain and over 50s generally supporting leave, and that is backed up by poll after poll after poll.

(I'm waiting for the first person to tell me that all the polls are wrong and that there is literally no way to know at all.)

 

[EM2]

Rather than everyone getting hot under the collar, surely the question should be why have so many people left it until the last second to register, it's hardly as though the referendum is a surprise event

Maybe they hadn't thought it worthwhile, had watched the ITV debate and thought 'Hmmm, hang on. This is quite important, maybe I should vote after all.'

 

[ExRes]

Just as an add on, I have been reading in my ASLEF magazine that I should vote Leave, I believe that RMT have also advised their membership to do the same while other Unions are for Remain, should members follow their own conscience or blindly follow their Union?, I see this as no different to age grouping
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe they hadn't thought it worthwhile, had watched the ITV debate and thought 'Hmmm, hang on. This is quite important, maybe I should vote after all.'

If anyone in this country has been thinking it wasn't worthwhile then they really do not deserve the right to a vote

 

[DarloRich]

Rather than everyone getting hot under the collar, surely the question should be why have so many people left it until the last second to register, it's hardly as though the referendum is a surprise event

Whilst it is a fair question as to why people leave anything to the last minute people should not be prejudiced from taking part because the government technology let them down before the published deadline.

Surely all sides should be hammering home the message that you need to register to vote to have a voice.

 

[Johnuk123]

A precedent has now been set and if Thursday 2 hrs before the registration closes we have another crash the Govt. will be forced to extend again.
They won't be able to say "Oh tough luck you've had 2 months to register it's your fault"
because if they thought that they would never have extended it by such a huge amount of 48 hrs to compensate for less than 2.
What an excellent example to set to younger people, don't bother getting yourself in gear leave it until the very last minute and the Govt. will make sure everything is fine little snowflake.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm confused why the deadline has to be so far in advance of the election anyway? Sure postal votes might need a few weeks lead time and maybe the arrangements for proxy voting. But if I'm planning on just going down to my local polling station on the day why can't the deadline for me to register be a couple of days before?

 

[TheKnightWho]

A precedent has now been set and if Thursday 2 hrs before the registration closes we have another crash the Govt. will be forced to extend again.
They won't be able to say "Oh tough luck you've had 2 months to register it's your fault"
because if they thought that they would never have extended it by such a huge amount of 48 hrs to compensate for less than 2.
What an excellent example to set to younger people, don't bother getting yourself in gear leave it until the very last minute and the Govt. will make sure everything is fine little snowflake.

Why do you hate people being enfranchised? Surely it is a good thing.

 

[DarloRich]

A precedent has now been set and if Thursday 2 hrs before the registration closes we have another crash the Govt. will be forced to extend again.
They won't be able to say "Oh tough luck you've had 2 months to register it's your fault"
because if they thought that they would never have extended it by such a huge amount of 48 hrs to compensate for less than 2.
What an excellent example to set to younger people, don't bother getting yourself in gear leave it until the very last minute and the Govt. will make sure everything is fine little snowflake.

but inside the deadline is inside the deadline, by a second or a year doesn't matter as long as you meet the deadline. Are you prepared to accept that? You seem to have a massive problem with people trying to register at the last moment. Why is that?

Your argument is that: We set a deadline ( which you complied with) but we changed our minds without telling you. Unlucky.

 

[EM2]

Instead of Brexit-ers complaining, why not just use the extended deadline to encourage more people that support them to register?

 

[DarloRich]

Instead of Brexit-ers complaining, why not just use the extended deadline to encourage more people that support them to register?

exactly - BOTH sides should be out telling people to register to vote ASAP and try to round up as many of their supporters who haven't registered.

 

[Domh245]

exactly - BOTH sides should be out telling people to register to vote ASAP and try to round up as many of their supporters who haven't registered.

Vote leave had been up to some dirty tricks with registration it turns out. In summary: they'd bought google AdSpace, so that when people searched for register to vote (or similar) the first result presented was this vote leave page, that didn't put people on the electoral register, but onto their mailing list. With even the slightest bit of thought, it was quite obvious that it wasn't the official government page, but still people had fallen for it - likely people who hadn't ever registered before. A bit of underhand tactics perhaps?

 

[DarloRich]

I have now watched the debate shown on ITV last night featuring Cameron and Farrage and thought it pretty poor and weak. It was certainly nothing like the posters above have suggested, especially those who have allowed their inherent bias and internal prejudice to govern their response.

Sadly it wasn't of the quality, depth or penetrating nature I had hoped.