Should we have a "maximum" fare for any journey?

[Deerfold]

A first class anytime return from Newcastle to Bristol is £747.90. Off peak standard return is £188.80.

There are many advances for many operators but these insane fares really harm rail's reputation.

Not really, a £99 cap would only do that if significant numbers of people were paying significantly more than £100.

Passengers already use split ticketing, railcards, advances booked in advance etc. Few are paying tickets that high regularly.

This isn't going to make rail actually much cheaper for everyone, its to kill off the insane fares which get into the headlines.

Cross Country rarely has reasonable advance fares anywhere near the date of travel, certainly not in First Class.

I often travel for work. Much of it is by rail, but where a journey is by Cross Country we either go via London, or, if that's much slower, drive.

The main reason for this seems to be that from Leeds there's often a four or five carriage train heading South West ever hour compared with 2 ten carriage trains to London - on the few occasions I travel with them, they're overcrowded and I've not always been able to claim my reserved seat.

 

[JonathanH]

I don't think it's fair to hit people with very high walk up fares, it's restricting freedom of movement amongst those of a low income, or too unwell to get a decent wage.

I know it's not a perfect world, but a bit more fairness wouldn't hurt - would it?

It would be easiest to just give people on a low income one free journey a year, and keep the fares at established levels.

 

[Howardh]

I'll just add this;

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Two adults, two children, next week. Manchester to St Ives, Cornwall: 8-9 hours, multiple changes, £710. Manchester to Málaga: 3 hours, £433. Please help my domestic tourism industry is dying.

He's going mid-week and it's not even peak hours, but even if the price were £99 I don't think I would do it - I'd fly to Newquay from Manchester and get the train from there. But again the price is eye-watering (surely Manchester - London and London - St Ives would be cheaper a week or two in advance?) and means that the pax either doesn't travel, goes somewhere else or has to spend ages finding cheaper fares via different routes.

However, the cost per person one way works out at £88 if they were all adults which I don't think's too bad? But two of those adults are kids!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll just add this;

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He's going mid-week and it's not even peak hours, but even if the price were £99 I don't think I would do it - I'd fly to Newquay from Manchester and get the train from there. But again the price is eye-watering (surely Manchester - London and London - St Ives would be cheaper a week or two in advance?) and means that the pax either doesn't travel, goes somewhere else or has to spend ages finding cheaper fares via different routes.

However, the cost per person one way works out at £88 if they were all adults which I don't think's too bad? But two of those adults are kids!!

Needs a Family Railcard!

The thing that concerns me more is that it's usually the case that for even one person it's more expensive by train than the marginal cost of driving. This needs resolving far more urgently than family costs because a full family car is a very environmentally and road space efficient mode of transport, so the answer for that journey is probably that they should drive anyway. Cars containing one person are the main thing that needs addressing environmentally and in road space terms.

 

[Howardh]

Needs a Family Railcard!

The thing that concerns me more is that it's usually the case that for even one person it's more expensive by train than the marginal cost of driving. This needs resolving far more urgently than family costs because a full family car is a very environmentally and road space efficient mode of transport, so the answer for that journey is probably that they should drive anyway. Cars containing one person are the main thing that needs addressing environmentally and in road space terms.

Agree about cars! Of course the pax may not have a car, but in any case they normally use the cost of fuel as the comparison, but a trip of, what, 600 miles return creates wear-and-tear on the engine, insurance is often based on miles/year, then roadside assistance, possibly an overnight stay if the driver is tired, and then there's amusing the bairns when stuck on the M5 for four hours!!

Anyhow the point I make is that when faced with that "base" fare, many will simply turn off and won't bother looking for different routes/times, split and even looking up if there are railcards/rovers etc. Why should they if they only travel once or twice a year?

Maybe it's time to look at the software and if a pax inputs "2 adults, 2 children" the cost comes up with "But £xx cheaper if you purchace a family railcard" and then it might not look so bad?

 

[skyhigh]

I'll just add this;

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He's going mid-week and it's not even peak hours, but even if the price were £99 I don't think I would do it - I'd fly to Newquay from Manchester and get the train from there. But again the price is eye-watering (surely Manchester - London and London - St Ives would be cheaper a week or two in advance?) and means that the pax either doesn't travel, goes somewhere else or has to spend ages finding cheaper fares via different routes.

However, the cost per person one way works out at £88 if they were all adults which I don't think's too bad? But two of those adults are kids!!

That particular 'journalist' has a bit of a click-bait attitude to their stories.

With a Family and Friends Railcard and Trainsplit the return fare on the same journey can be reduced to £279. Using your "cost per person one way if they were all adults" metric you're looking at about £35 per person.

In an average family car to travel the same distance you'd be looking at roughly £140 in petrol, with a total driving time of around 13 hours. There are some ridiculous fares out there but this case really doesn't seem like one to me.

 

[Gaelan]

The thing that concerns me more is that it's usually the case that for even one person it's more expensive by train than the marginal cost of driving. This needs resolving far more urgently than family costs because a full family car is a very environmentally and road space efficient mode of transport, so the answer for that journey is probably that they should drive anyway.

…assuming the family owns a car anyway.

I'm absolutely with you that fixing fares for single-adult journeys should be prioritized in the short term, but public transport can't just play to its strengths forever, because once someone has a car for those occasional family trips, it's easy for them to conclude they may as well drive to work. (See also: late night service, service to rural areas, and all manner of other "unprofitable" services.)