Should we go back into lockdown at this point?

[radamfi]

Also, just to add injury to insult, if pensioner's pensions and income is so low, we have now had the opportunity to escape to a cheaper EU country with a better climate stolen away from us, they won't give residential visas to those under a certain income, even if we can live frugally.

In that case I would emigrate to Ireland, so that you can regain that facility in 5 years time, or leave for the EU before the end of the year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's exactly the "mental health is easy" sort of attidute that we need to get rid of. Next you'll be saying that "I was sad once and I got over it" and that all people suffering from depression and just being melodramatic.

But people can be helped into new things to substitute for the old ones that are no longer possible. Otherwise, for example, every wheelchair user would have committed suicide, because that's about as big as the hit gets without being killed.

I'm missing long distance train travel, because I find masks too uncomfortable to enjoy it. As an alternative I'm making more trips by car, as one example. I don't enjoy it as much, but it's a viable alternative for a shortish period.

Mental health isn't easy but it also isn't insoluble.

 

[Yew]

but it's a viable alternative for a shortish period.

I think we're quickly going past a "shortish period". And that's before we consider that numerous outdoors hobbies that one might want to pick up have not only been closed recently, but had their social side stripped away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think we're quickly going past a "shortish period". And that's before we consider that numerous outdoors hobbies that one might want to pick up have not only been closed recently, but had their social side stripped away.

I wonder if you might be younger than me? I'm reckoning on 1-2 years, as per the Spanish Flu. That to me, at 41, is a relatively short period? If you are 18 say that will feel quite different.

 

[Bantamzen]

I wonder if you might be younger than me? I'm reckoning on 1-2 years, as per the Spanish Flu. That to me, at 41, is a relatively short period? If you are 18 say that will feel quite different.

The situation in 1918 was far different than now, so any comparison with it is at best flawed and at worst disrespectful.

 

[DB]

The situation in 1918 was far different than now, so any comparison with it is at best flawed and at worst disrespectful.

And Spanish flu was a lot more dangerous than this virus.

 

[takno]

I wonder if you might be younger than me? I'm reckoning on 1-2 years, as per the Spanish Flu. That to me, at 41, is a relatively short period? If you are 18 say that will feel quite different.

Well I'm not younger than you and it doesn't sound like a short period to me. And for my elderly parents it could well be most of the rest of their lives.

 

[Bikeman78]

No, but if the test hadn't been carried out and they'd gone round their Nan's?

(Grandparents of schoolkids tend to have quite a few more years left in them - it's not like those in a home for whom it might be welcome relief)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2020 ==



That's a very strong statement. What will you do instead? Quit and lose your income?

Then don't visit grandparents. It's completely impractical to limit the spread in schools. I remember what school was like even if it was more than 20 years ago. In any case, if it spreads rapidly, they will all have had it within a few weeks.

 

[bramling]

That's a very strong statement. What will you do instead? Quit and lose your income?

There’s ways and means, what with this taking its toll on mental health and all that. To be honest I wouldn’t be too bothered even going without income.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2020 ==

I didn't say it was a right to do those things.

I said that peoples' mental health will suffer from not being able to do them.

The point about mental health is well made.

We’ve been in West Wales for the last few days, the first really proper time away from home this year, and feel so much better for it already. Those who haven’t been on furlough haven’t had much opportunity for quality time off work since March, and if one included it being winter before that, for a year or more. Eventually it becomes very wearing, especially with all the hassles associated with Covid going on.

 

[LowLevel]

I would say I feel a lockdown would do far more harm than good. It certainly made me, a generally stable individual, utterly miserable. In the last week we've had at least 5 suicides on our routes. A colleague has also just passed away from cancer at a very young age. Instead of enjoying her last months with her friends and family she was holed up at home and latterly a hospice.

Some restrictions, sure. A full lockdown again - no thanks, I suspect most would rather take their chances.

 

[Socanxdis]

How is going into lock down going to help? Perhaps a temporary reduction in transmission rates, but as soon as you open things up, the rate will go back up again as it did the first time around.

 

[NorthOxonian]

How is going into lock down going to help? Perhaps a temporary reduction in transmission rates, but as soon as you open things up, the rate will go back up again as it did the first time around.

Exactly. Lockdown only makes sense if there's a clear end point. If (for example) we knew that the vaccine would be ready in two months, then you could probably justify a two month lockdown, and organisations could base their plans around when it would end (though even then it probably wouldn't be the best option). But we're in a situation now where we have no idea how long restrictions would need to continue for - lockdowns just delay the inevitable.

 

[Scrotnig]

If they tell me I am not allowed to leave my house again, I shall take absolutely no notice whatsoever.

 

[Darandio]

If they tell me I am not allowed to leave my house again, I shall take absolutely no notice whatsoever.

They never told you that the first time around.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If they tell me I am not allowed to leave my house again, I shall take absolutely no notice whatsoever.

The only people being advised not to leave their homes are the 'extremely clinically vulnerable' within the affected wards in Blackburn with Darwen (no time limit specified) and
Leicester City - where they should continue to shield until the 5 October.

There is no lockdown, there is no curfew. Get some perspective - read some history of military coup / revolutions in, say, sub-Saharan Africa or South America to understand what a curfew actually is - shot on sight if spotted outside your home after dusk. In some areas of the country, some 'hospitality' businesses have to close between 2200 and 0500. In many cases you can still order on-line and have it delivered - to the bench across the road! In all of the country you are limited to the number of people that you can mingle with. That's all.

This is the key message, lost in all the blather, and seemingly forgotten:

It is better to limit all your social interactions at this time to help stop the spread of coronavirus. However, we recognise that this is difficult.

 

[Class 33]

Big anti-Lockdown protest in London today(which probably won't even get a mention on the TV news). I think there will be more to come of this across the country. Many people in this country(and indeed the whole of the UK) certainly do NOT want to be put into lockdown all over again.

 

[adc82140]

The only people being advised not to leave their homes are the 'extremely clinically vulnerable' within the affected wards in Blackburn with Darwen (no time limit specified) and
Leicester City - where they should continue to shield until the 5 October.

There is no lockdown, there is no curfew. Get some perspective - read some history of military coup / revolutions in, say, sub-Saharan Africa or South America to understand what a curfew actually is - shot on sight if spotted outside your home after dusk. In some areas of the country, some 'hospitality' businesses have to close between 2200 and 0500. In many cases you can still order on-line and have it delivered - to the bench across the road! In all of the country you are limited to the number of people that you can mingle with. That's all.

This is the key message, lost in all the blather, and seemingly forgotten:

I blame the media for a lot of this. Throwing around the terms "lockdown" and "curfew" like they think they are being clever. And it's not just the tabloids. There are NO plans for a lockdown anywhere. There are NO plans for a curfew. There ARE Covid related restrictions in the pipeline. But terminology like that doesn't drive ad clicks.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I blame the media for a lot of this. Throwing around the terms "lockdown" and "curfew" like they think they are being clever. And it's not just the tabloids. There are NO plans for a lockdown anywhere. There are NO plans for a curfew. There ARE Covid related restrictions in the pipeline. But terminology like that doesn't drive ad clicks.

Indeed, fuelling the negative feelings of all those finding it too much, thinking that they can't go anywhere, when clearly they can still do most things they always have - even drinking in Wetherspoons from 0500 to 2200 if they wish! Plus feeding the Karens and their hysterical on-line meltdowns about how the government is not going far enough.

 

[Nicholas43]

There is no lockdown, there is no curfew.

Precisely. One of the irritations of this ongoing bungle is that the word lockdown has come to mean 'unpoliced and often unintelligible purported restrictions on mingling, imposed without any scrutiny by the supposedly sovereign parliament'. As a (fortunately so far healthy) 77 year old, I'd much prefer a Swedish-style approach, provided that, from now on, we do better than Sweden did in keeping Covid-19 out of care homes.

 

[yorksrob]

If you love horses, it's an enshrined right to travel to Doncaster Races? Or to travel from Kent to Merseyside to travel on a 508 cos you love EMUs?

It's not the same as not being able to see your family.

My family is in Kent. I consider it somewhat of a right to travel to see them.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I think there needs to be direct financial support for any hospitality businesses forced to close. That should concentrate any Government minds that might be wavering towards a long and winding lockdown.

Can't see this government doing that. They've hung the entire events, theatre, exhibition, conference and live music industry out to dry - I doubt they'll care
As far as I'm aware there was no additional support for businesses in Leicester that were forcibly closed under their local restrictions

 

[takno]

Precisely. One of the irritations of this ongoing bungle is that the word lockdown has come to mean 'unpoliced and often unintelligible purported restrictions on mingling, imposed without any scrutiny by the supposedly sovereign parliament'. As a (fortunately so far healthy) 77 year old, I'd much prefer a Swedish-style approach, provided we do better than Sweden in keeping Covid-19 out of care homes.

We already did at least as badly as Sweden on care homes - there's already been Covid cases in nearly 50% of our homes, and they represent around half of our deaths iirc

 

[yorksrob]

There does seem to be much scaremongering in the tabloids. I cannot see BJ ordering a second full national lockdown but he will implement some strong measures.

I am kind of anticipating a night time curfew on socialising to deter the partying atmosphere of people at weekends and students away from home for the first time.

They have implemented this in Bolton. My friend lives in the town and he said people are still free to go out after 10pm but as the pubs, bars and 24 hour mini-markets are closed there is less insentive to venture out and congregate.

Shift workers and unaffected by the curfew unless of course they want a brew from McDonald's at 3am.

CJ

And yet the latest guidance in places such as Lancashire includes a baseless requirement to keep public transport for essential travel only !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2020 ==

Can't see this government doing that. They've hung the entire events, theatre, exhibition, conference and live music industry out to dry - I doubt they'll care
As far as I'm aware there was no additional support for businesses in Leicester that were forcibly closed under their local restrictions

I don't really support a further lockdown anyway as one would seem pretty pointless, but I would be particularly against one if such support for businesses wasn't forthcoming.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My family is in Kent. I consider it somewhat of a right to travel to see them.

I fully understand that as my family are at the other end of the country and I didn't see them from Christmas until July. That is more understandable than a right to go to Doncaster Races.

I'm sure the person who went abroad from Bolton, then didn't quarantine when they got back, and is now responsible for a certain chunk of the Bolton spike, also considered it "somewhat of a right" to go and see their friends on a pub crawl, rather than thinking of their responsibilities to others.

Seeing your nearest and dearest is much nearer to essential travel. Much more so than people demanding the freedom to do as they wish.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

And Spanish flu was a lot more dangerous than this virus.

I saw on Alan Jones on Sky Australia (mislaid the link, alas) quoting figures comparing the world population then (1.8bn) with 2020.
To have killed the same percentage of the present population, deaths from Coronavirus would need to hit 210 million to be as deadly as Spanish flu, which actually killed young people in far greater percentage than Covid does

 

[yorksrob]

I fully understand that as my family are at the other end of the country and I didn't see them from Christmas until July. That is more understandable than a right to go to Doncaster Races.

I'm sure the person who went abroad from Bolton, then didn't quarantine when they got back, and is now responsible for a certain chunk of the Bolton spike, also considered it "somewhat of a right" to go and see their friends on a pub crawl, rather than thinking of their responsibilities to others.

Seeing your nearest and dearest is much nearer to essential travel. Much more so than people demanding the freedom to do as they wish.

With regard to the chap in Bolton, the fault was in not completing his quarantine, rather than visiting friends.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I blame the media for a lot of this. Throwing around the terms "lockdown" and "curfew" like they think they are being clever. And it's not just the tabloids. There are NO plans for a lockdown anywhere. There are NO plans for a curfew. There ARE Covid related restrictions in the pipeline. But terminology like that doesn't drive ad clicks.

Indeed, fuelling the negative feelings of all those finding it too much, thinking that they can't go anywhere, when clearly they can still do most things they always have - even drinking in Wetherspoons from 0500 to 2200 if they wish! Plus feeding the Karens and their hysterical on-line meltdowns about how the government is not going far enough.

Absolutely. I mean, we've not had a lockdown in the same way as other countries. Boris is too much of a libertarian for that.

 

[pdq]

I think we need to be careful with the term 'lockdown'. In my opinion we have never been in real lockdown in this country as a whole population; I'd certainly agree that those deemed to be vulnerable, and those in residential care homes especially, were locked down though.

When Spain was in 'lockdown', children were not even allowed to leave their home for a number of weeks. That's locked in my opinion. Vulnerable people and their families excepted, we were never totally banned from leaving our homes. We certainly had to stay inside as much as possible, but we were allowed out: to exercise, and shop for groceries.

Even if that's classed as 'lockdown' (and I accept it's the general consensus and usage that it is) we are very unlikely to head back to those levels of restrictions. We will almost certainly have further and more stringent restrictions placed on how and when we come into contact with others, but I really don't see us coming anywhere near being locked down.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

With regard to the chap in Bolton, the fault was in not completing his quarantine, rather than visiting friends.

It was not following rules... probably because he had a sense of entitlement. Had he done so, not visited friends, and not hauled his Covid laden frame round several watering holes, that would undoubtedly have been better!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely. I mean, we've not had a lockdown in the same way as other countries. Boris is too much of a libertarian for that.

Some countries were rather stupid and pointlessly banned outside exercise. The UK made the very sensible choice not to do so. Two countries, Spain and Italy, committed institutional child abuse by keeping children in for 2 months, that said, which was again totally unnecessary.

Other than that, our "lockdown" was very similar to other European countries.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2020 ==

It was not following rules... probably because he had a sense of entitlement. Had he done so, not visited friends, and not hauled his Covid laden frame round several watering holes, that would undoubtedly have been better!

A number of these events have involved people engaging in pub crawls. While these are fun, it's not really the time for it. Would a sensible restriction be that you are only allowed to visit one licensed premises per day for consumption on the premises? That would keep that sort of thing under control. How you'd implement it I'm not sure, perhaps via the NHS app, or perhaps just via the existing pubwatch schemes.