Should we get Oyster Cards?

[plannerman]

Hi all

My wife and I are staying in London on the weekend of 14/15 January. On the Saturday we are visiting Hampton Court, and on the Sunday we'll just potter around the city (which for us normally includes multiple tube journeys, hopping around various sights etc)

We are staying in Harrow, within easy walking distance of Kenton and Northwick Park stations.

I guess I have a few questions. We don't stay in London very often - maybe one weekend a year - and we usually buy one day travelcards. Is there much benefit to us in getting an Oyster Card? I've read about an activation fee and/or a deposit on the card, is this just dead money for us? Also does the credit on an Oyster Card ever expire?

Is the journey from Kenton to Hampton Court do-able on a travelcard? I think Hampton Court is within the zones system, though obviously well outside the tube network. The TfL travel planner is throwing up some epic journeys, presumably because of engineering work on the Hampton Court branch that weekend. The journey will probably involve a combination of tube, overground and bus - how simple would that be to a first-time Oyster user? I've heard nightmare stories about people forgetting to swipe in or out and getting gripped.

Thanks for any help - travel in London (well, paying for it) sure is complex to a Northener...

 

[SS4]

You may find MikeWh's independent site on Oyster a help: http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/

I guess I have a few questions. We don't stay in London very often - maybe one weekend a year - and we usually buy one day travelcards. Is there much benefit to us in getting an Oyster Card?

I would say so simply because it would mean you did not have to buy two 1-day travelcards, especially if you're only making a few journeys on one/both of the days (ie: below the oyster cap).

I've read about an activation fee and/or a deposit on the card, is this just dead money for us? Also does the credit on an Oyster Card ever expire?

Last I checked it was a £5 deposit (it may be £8 now) plus at least £5 credit. One of the members more au fait with this will surely correct me if I'm wrong.
I also believe that credit does not expire.

Is the journey from Kenton to Hampton Court do-able on a travelcard? I think Hampton Court is within the zones system, though obviously well outside the tube network. The TfL travel planner is throwing up some epic journeys, presumably because of engineering work on the Hampton Court branch that weekend.

I can't find Hampton Court on the Tube Map so I would say not (get a boundary zone 6 to Hampton court return). Again, I may very well be wrong so corrections are welcome!

Edit: Corrected. You can.

The journey will probably involve a combination of tube, overground and bus - how simple would that be to a first-time Oyster user? I've heard nightmare stories about people forgetting to swipe in or out and getting gripped.

I find it much easier to use oyster than it is with a paper travelcard. Look for the yellow reader and touch/hover until you hear a beep and the gates open.
Don't do what I did for months and swipe it though - that doesn't work

Thanks for any help - travel in London (well, paying for it) sure is complex to a Northener...

No problem, I found it quite intimidating until I tried it.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

I don't live in London but have Oyster, I had my card for many years, makes life easier, top-up before you go, Simple.

I'm no expert, but Hampton Court is in zone 6, so is valid with oyster.


See this map.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/oyster-rail-services-map.pdf

 

[clagmonster]

On the Saturday, assuming you have no railcard, you have two options.
1) Buy a Zones 1-6 Travelcard for £8.50, which will allow travel via central London and unlimited journeys within the Travelcard Zones.

2)If you are making no other journies on that day, you could travel as follows:
Bakerloo/London Overground southbound Kenton-Willesden Jn
London Overground Willesden Jn-Clapham Jn
British Rail: Clapham Jn-Tolworth
Replacement bus Tolworth-Hampton Court.
Travelling via this route, you could buy a Kenton-Hampton Court, route Clapham Jn not London for £7.70 each.

On the Sunday, unless you have a ralcard, it depends how many journies you intend to make. If you are making more than 3 or 4 journies, I would buy a Travelcard as the Oyster will cap at the same rate anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't find Hampton Court on the Tube Map so I would say not (get a boundary zone 6 to Hampton court return). Again, I may very well be wrong so corrections are welcome!

If you really just looked on a 'tube map' that's not a very useful way of finding a NR station within the zones is it...

 

[clagmonster]

Is there much benefit to us in getting an Oyster Card? I've read about an activation fee and/or a deposit on the card, is this just dead money for us? Also does the credit on an Oyster Card ever expire?

The is a deposit, but it is refundable, so not quite dead money. The credit never expires.

 

[matt]

Last I checked it was a £5 deposit (it may be £8 now) plus at least £5 credit. One of the members more au fait with this will surely correct me if I'm wrong.

Unless its changed this year it was still a £5 deposit when I got my oyster the week before Christmas

 

[MikeWh]

On the Saturday, assuming you have no railcard, you have two options.
1) Buy a Zones 1-6 Travelcard for £8.50, which will allow travel via central London and unlimited journeys within the Travelcard Zones.

2)If you are making no other journies on that day, you could travel as follows:
Bakerloo/London Overground southbound Kenton-Willesden Jn
London Overground Willesden Jn-Clapham Jn
British Rail: Clapham Jn-Tolworth
Replacement bus Tolworth-Hampton Court.
Travelling via this route, you could buy a Kenton-Hampton Court, route Clapham Jn not London for £7.70 each.

If you have an Oyster card then option 2 will cost £2.10 each way. You'll need to touch in at Kenton and out at Tolworth. My understanding is that you won't be charged on the rail replacement bus, just wave your Oyster card as you board if anyone is checking tickets. If that really is your only journey that day then this is almost enough to justify an Oyster on it's own.

On the Sunday, unless you have a ralcard, it depends how many journies you intend to make. If you are making more than 3 or 4 journies, I would buy a Travelcard as the Oyster will cap at the same rate anyway.

If Kenton is as far out as you will go on the Sunday then make sure it's a zone 1-4 travelcard as that is slightly cheaper (£7.70). Oyster will cap at that rate automatically as long as you touch in and out at each end of every journey. In zone 1 it's harder to go wrong because most stations have gates thus it's obvious if the Oyster has worked or not.

Unless its changed this year it was still a £5 deposit when I got my oyster the week before Christmas

It is still £5. If you can store it safely (so you can find it next time) then it's probably worth keeping to save the hassle of refunding and buying again. Neither the deposit nor the credit will ever expire.

 

[bkhtele]

I woul stick with 1 day travel cards, I've tried both & unless you are only going to do only 1 or 2 journeys it is much easier. Another small benefit if you want to use thames ferry e.g. Tate to Tate it is easier to get 25% discount on ferry journey.

 

[yorkie]

I live over 180 miles from London and I have an Oyster card, registered it online and set up auto-topup. I can then check my journey history to see what I have been charged and do not have to worry about queuing for tickets.

Kenton to Hampton Court is very cheap on Oyster if avoiding Zone 1 (central London). Depending on the exact time you travel, you can either take the first available train (LU/LO) that comes to Harrow & Wealdstone, then Southern to Clapham Jn, then the first available SWT train to Hampton Court (or Tolworth if there are replacement buses from there), or alternatively it may be better to to take the first available train (LU/LO) to Willesden Jn, then LO to Clapham Jn and then SWT (as above). I would take the Southern option if a Southern train was running at a suitable time, otherwise it would be better to take the all-stops. There would be no extra charge to go to Harrow & Wealdstone on Oyster, there are no issues with doubling back between Kenton and Harrow on Oyster (one of the many benefits of Oyster; yes there are drawbacks but I now believe the benefits outweigh the drawbacks for the vast majority of journeys)

 

[snail]

I woul stick with 1 day travel cards, I've tried both & unless you are only going to do only 1 or 2 journeys it is much easier.

How is it much easier? You have to go to a machine or ticket office to get either product. I'm with Yorkie here, Oyster with auto top-up is ideal for the occasional visitor to London.

I went to a West End show last week, simply arrived at Marylebone, stuck my Oyster card on the reader and off I went - the exit gate at Piccadilly Circus told me I had £20.10 credit left, having deducted the lower Oyster fare. I used to be a real pain trying to estimate whether bus/tube/train was better as individual fares or a travelcard, so much easier nowadays.

It's good value for railcard holders too since they changed the system to give discounts on individual tube & rail fares. I know a Senior Railcard holder that combines Oyster with their over-60s bus pass very successfully.

If you intend getting one 'on deposit', do check the refund policy. I think it's a maximum of £10 remaining balance (plus the deposit).

 

[island]

You can only get £10 including the deposit back "easily". Larger refunds depend on various factors such as the method of payment used for your last top-up, the clerk's mood, how many millimetres of rain fell at Neasden station a week and two days ago, and the colour of the shapes on the bottom of tickets issued by that station. Well at least the first two. Mojo should be along shortly to give a more precise answer.

 

[bkhtele]

How is it much easier? You have to go to a machine or ticket office to get either product. I'm with Yorkie here, Oyster with auto top-up.

Yes I agree Oyster is good if you are a regular user.
Two minus points
1. you can overpay e.g touching in & out at same station when
LU gatekeepers refuse to accept your valid rail ticket & you on't have time to argue - got charged max daily charge for a £1.50 fare. This can't happen with a travel card.
2. Dead money with card when not visiting Lonon regularly, Imust consider auto top up though, seems like a better idea as I am queuing up with 2 oyster cards to top them up!

 

[Urban Gateline]

1. you can overpay e.g touching in & out at same station when
LU gatekeepers refuse to accept your valid rail ticket & you on't have time to argue - got charged max daily charge for a £1.50 fare. This can't happen with a travel card.

I don't understand what you are saying here, do you mean you entered the station through the gates using an Oyster card, then you got stopped and were too impatient to discuss so you touched out and left the station?

Also, with a Travelcard, it won't operate the same barriers within a 15min grace period if you wan't to go in and out, so that doesn't work either. Either way you pay more via Oyster or you're trapped when the Travelcard doesn't operate the barriers.

 

[yorkie]

Yes I agree Oyster is good if you are a regular user.

..and if you are not a regular user. I was against Oyster back in 2005 or whenever I first heard about it, for various reasons. But once it was extended to National Rail and I became more aware of the benefits, I changed my mind. I met Met Driver in 2005 and I am sure he would confirm this

Two minus points
1. you can overpay e.g touching in & out at same station when
LU gatekeepers refuse to accept your valid rail ticket & you on't have time to argue - got charged max daily charge for a £1.50 fare. This can't happen with a travel card.

I don't understand this, if you are using Oyster then you are not using another rail ticket. If you are using Oyster as a means to travel when a valid ticket is not accepted, then that is not the fault of Oyster and, on the contrary, the speed of Oyster means that the disagreement over the other ticket can be resolved by simply using Oyster and writing a letter of complaint later, avoiding a delay that you may not have time for at the time.

2. Dead money with card when not visiting Lonon regularly, Imust consider auto top up though, seems like a better idea as I am queuing up with 2 oyster cards to top them up!

I don't really think this is a valid argument, especially not with interest rates so low! And this is coming from someone who was very sceptical at first and who lives a long way from London with no vested interest in Oyster.

 

[island]

My reading of it is that bkhtele was denied exit by an LU gateline assistant when using an NR ticket, and then in order to get out, touched his/her Oyster card on a gate, incurring a maximum cash fare.

 

[Urban Gateline]

My reading of it is that bkhtele was denied exit by an LU gateline assistant when using an NR ticket, and then in order to get out, touched his/her Oyster card on a gate, incurring a maximum cash fare.

I've seen that before, it's a very cheap exit for someone with an Invalid ticket, especially day returns which expired yesterday or a few days ago, or a Megatrain passenger who wishes to alight at CLJ

 

[plannerman]

Thanks for all the feedback, I reckon on balance we will get Oyster cards. After all we do visit London occasionally, so in the long run it sounds like it'll work out better. Thanks again!

 

[jon0844]

I wonder if there will be an Olympic branded Oyster card released this year for the visitor cards? If so, I can see a lot of people being quite happy to get and keep hold of one just for the souvenir value!

 

[bkhtele]

My reading of it is that bkhtele was denied exit by an LU gateline assistant when using an NR ticket, and then in order to get out, touched his/her Oyster card on a gate, incurring a maximum cash fare.

Yes you are correct, it was a valid sail rail ticket to Belfast via London about 12 months ago, and used Oyster as I was rushing for my connection. I assumed incorrectly that it would only cost me £1.50

 

[MikeWh]

Yes you are correct, it was a valid sail rail ticket to Belfast via London about 12 months ago, and used Oyster as I was rushing for my connection. I assumed incorrectly that it would only cost me £1.50

£1.50 would be the off-peak zone 1 NR only fare last year. That was(is) charged if the card enters a station and exits again between 2 and 30 minutes later. It's known as a same station exit. More than 30 minutes gives you two incomplete journey charges while less than 2 minutes gives you one incomplete journey charge which will be cancelled if you go back in within 45 minutes at any station. An unmatched entry or exit is always the relevant incomplete journey charge, £6.90 peak, £4.60 off-peak at almost all stations when using PAYG only.

 

[yorkie]

Yes you are correct, it was a valid sail rail ticket to Belfast via London about 12 months ago, and used Oyster as I was rushing for my connection. I assumed incorrectly that it would only cost me £1.50

Having the ability to open a ticket gate and pay a maximum fare (which you can choose to do or not IF you are denied passage through the gates) is hardly a disadvantage compared to not having the ability to do that, so I fail to understand how this can be a disadvantage of Oyster! (on the contrary...)