Should train drivers require a driving licence?

[Krokodil]

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

There are other ways of getting to work for a 3am book-on that do not involve a motor vehicle. How did anyone manage before mass car ownership in the 1960s?

 

[357]

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==



It is nowhere near.

If a car is essential - then the companies should stop promoting cycle to work schemes

 

[stadler]

This was something that I thought of recently upon viewing London North Western Railway's website page about train drivers. Among the list of requirements was a full driving licence.


I thought this was interesting because while other TOCs require you to live within a certain travel time of your depots without public transport, they don't explicitly say that they require you to have a full driving licence or have access to a vehicle. Is LNR simply saying an unwritten industry rule out loud, or is this a unique standard for them as a train operating company?

I understand that the expectation is to be able to reach your depot for booking on without reliance on public transport, which will usually require your own transport by default, but in this instance there is also the possibility for someone to use a bicycle or e-bike to get to work, or if they live close enough possibly even walking to their depot. Actually requiring a licence and access to a vehicle seems like an oddly specific standard that seems a little bit unnecessary (though I am hesitant to say discriminatory).

So the question here is, should train drivers be required to hold a driving licence and have access to a vehicle, or should the usual requirement of being able to reach your booking on point without any regard for how you do it remain the standard? Right now I believe in the latter since it still sets a standard while also offering some degree of flexibility. I think as long as you can prove you'll be able to reach the depot within the required time that it shouldn't disqualify you from the job assuming you meet all the other requirements.

That is very odd. I have never heard of passenger train drivers requiring driving licences. Normally it is only some freight companies who require it due to the fact that they use company cars for driver changes. So you do a lot of driving on the road to get to or from remote driver changeover locations. But i have never heard of this being required for passenger train drivers.

I wonder if London North Western Railway use company cars to get to between the depot and driver changeover points like some freight companies do. Could it possibly be that they have some duties far from the depot where you are based. That is all i can think of. But most passenger train companies book taxis for drivers to get between the depot and another changeover point if there are no trains.

I have two family members who are both train drivers and yet they have both never held any driving licence (not even a provisional licence) nor have they ever driven a car (or any road vehicle) in their life. There must be hundreds of people like them. It has never been a requirement to have a driving licence.

I think requiring driving licences would be a very backwards step. We should be encouraging people to be train drivers and not putting up more barriers. It would prevent a lot of people from becoming train drivers. Many people who are train drivers live within walking or cycling distance of the depot which enables them to make early and late shifts. A car is not essential for a lot of people.

Also requiring driving licences for train drivers is pointless as it is so different to driving on the road. None of the skills of driving on the road are relevant to driving a train. Being able to drive a car does not mean you will be any better at driving a train. You get all the training from the train company.

 

[Sorcerer]

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

Yes, a car would be preferable in the sense that it offers reliable and sheltered means of getting to work compared to a bicycle, moped, motorbike or walking which will have you battling the weather some days. However, those are still available alternatives before relying on taxis (which I will agree is a risk that I personally wouldn't take), so I definitely think London Northwestern is being unreasonable with such a specific requirement.

 

[Taunton]

If a car is essential - then the companies should stop promoting cycle to work schemes

But would it be reasonable to require that, in addition to a driving licence, you have the ability to balance on a bicycle and ride it sensibly? Both are indicators of general life competence.

Same with requiring GCSE English. You are most unlikely to have to quote Shakespeare from the driving cab, and the railway uses a notable number of words that are not in the school syllabus, but it's a good general indication of ability. There are commonly far more applicants for the positions than vacancies, so these aspects do give an initial weeding out.

 

[Gloster]

Not a driver, but I was a signalman in the early 1980s. My second box was out in the country north of Exeter: nobody asked me when I applied whether and how I could get to the box for the shift changeovers (06.00, 14.00 and 22.00 on a weekday, 08.30 and 18.00 on Sunday). I was presumed to have familiarised myself with its location and was happy about getting there: it was my responsibility to turn up on time and the railway wasn’t going to alter things to make it easier for me, although the occasional short-term bending of the rules might be practiced. Nobody took me to task for the fact that throughout my couple of years there I cycled 9 miles each way, although some may have thought it a bit odd, particularly as I obviously saw it as a permanent arrangement as I never bothered to take driving lessons.

My next box was in in the middle of Somerset and again nobody asked me how I was going to get there. I was taking driving lessons but didn’t pass and get a car until I had passed out: a moped did in the meanwhile. It was my responsibility.

I suppose that one difference now is that drivers are coming in off the street and need expensive training. Management do not want to find that someone lets them down at the end of the process by being unable to do what is expected. Signalmen did not have such lengthy training and the whole ethos of the railway meant that if someone did look like being a pain in the posterior the word would get back to management fairly quickly.

 

[357]

However, those are still available alternatives before relying on taxis (which I will agree is a risk that I personally wouldn't take)

I regularly get a taxi to work - and I know other drivers who do too, on shifts where you'll hit traffic on the way back and it's quicker to get the train.

My TOC let's us have the company taxi pick us up from our house if our first bit is heading elsewhere away from the crew depot.

I think it's been pretty well clarified that this requirement wasn't supposed to be included - and the rest of the thread is certain members with a solution that's looking for a problem.

 

[Horizon22]

If a car is essential - then the companies should stop promoting cycle to work schemes

That seems like a false equivalence. Not everyone at a rail company works shifts and even if they do some are more moderate and people may live close to work. There are lots of “9-5” office workers.

I personally didn’t say a car is essential - nor do I think it is - but note how they said a driving licence is; it’s a subtle but distinct difference. I also don’t think that is right and will surely be duly corrected.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2025 ==

But would it be reasonable to require that, in addition to a driving licence, you have the ability to balance on a bicycle and ride it sensibly? Both are indicators of general life competence.

Same with requiring GCSE English. You are most unlikely to have to quote Shakespeare from the driving cab, and the railway uses a notable number of words that are not in the school syllabus, but it's a good general indication of ability. There are commonly far more applicants for the positions than vacancies, so these aspects do give an initial weeding out.

Good spoken English is key. Safety-critical communications are a part of day to day life for a driver (and indeed guards and dispatchers) and many an incident has occurred because of substandard communications.

 

[Sorcerer]

I regularly get a taxi to work - and I know other drivers who do too, on shifts where you'll hit traffic on the way back and it's quicker to get the train.

My TOC let's us have the company taxi pick us up from our house if our first bit is heading elsewhere away from the crew depot.

I don't think there's anything wrong with using taxis for work, and if it were a last resort option I would certainly take it. I just prefer the comfort of self-reliance and wouldn't consider it an option unless I couldn't drive or cycle. Not a problem with anyone who uses taxis regularly though, I don't care how one gets to work of a morning.

I think it's been pretty well clarified that this requirement wasn't supposed to be included - and the rest of the thread is certain members with a solution that's looking for a problem.

Whether it has or hasn't been confirmed that the requirement wasn't supposed to be included, bearing in mind it is still currently listed on LNR's page about train drivers, I still think it's a fair and reasonable discussion, and it has been interesting for me personally to hear stories and opinions from those who worked on the railway, yours included.

 

[Joe Paxton]

From the (slightly) outside world, having a driving licence is nowadays just a part of competent adult life. Just like adequate academic achievements, being lucid in speech, etc. Quite how one can be competent to drive a train, but not an individual motor vehicle on the road, is something of a disconnect.

This is rather ridiculous comment, one that almost reads as if it's trolling!

Per the National Travel Survey 2022, 75% of adults in England have a driving licence - meaning a quarter do not.

 

[Horizon22]

This is rather ridiculous comment, one that almost reads as if it's trolling!

Per the National Travel Survey 2022, 75% of adults in England have a driving licence - meaning a quarter do not.

It will be significantly skewed by London however which has a large population, a considerable proprtion of whom are non-drivers.

 

[fabs]

We don’t require a license at our TOC.
But I do ask at interview how they expect/plan to arrive in time for their shifts.

I have actually had someone admit that they hadn’t thought through how they were going to get in for an 0430 start.

 

[IanXC]

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

Sorry what?

At no stage is a driver going to get a bus from the traincrew depot to the rolling stock depot. Simply is not going to happen.

The TOC will diagram a taxi or a pass ride, so at what stage is that a risk to the driver?

 

[Horizon22]

Sorry what?

At no stage is a driver going to get a bus from the traincrew depot to the rolling stock depot. Simply is not going to happen.

The TOC will diagram a taxi or a pass ride, so at what stage is that a risk to the driver?

You seem to have misunderstood me.

It is the driver’s responsibility to get to their depot / place of work for their shift start time. Now if their work involves a taxi or pass from that depot to another location then yes of course that is part of their daily diagram and the TOC’s responsibility.

I was referring to relying on taxis from your home address to your place of work.

 

[Russel]

When I had my interview with c2c they asked me if I have a driving licence - I said no, one of the managers interviewing seemed to be unable to comprehend that I lived a 15 minute walk from the depot and I still have the impression she couldn't comprehend someone walking for 15 minutes ....

Her attitude perfectly demonstrates how dependent people have become on their cars.

 

[zwk500]

There are other ways of getting to work for a 3am book-on that do not involve a motor vehicle. How did anyone manage before mass car ownership in the 1960s?

The world was a very different place then, it's simply not a relevant comparison at all.

 

[Krokodil]

The world was a very different place then, it's simply not a relevant comparison at all.

Unlike the US we've generally avoided demolishing most of our city centres for highways and car parks in the meantime so there are still plenty of walkable/bikeable parts of the country, many of which include a traincrew depot.

 

[zwk500]

Unlike the US we've generally avoided demolishing most of our city centres for highways and car parks in the meantime so there are still plenty of walkable/bikeable parts of the country, many of which include a traincrew depot.

Yes but we've built vast amounts of low-density suburbia where people prefer to live, which is very car-dominated. However the comparison between the US and UK and the comparison between the UK in the 1950s and now are very different comparisons.

 

[IanXC]

You seem to have misunderstood me.

It is the driver’s responsibility to get to their depot / place of work for their shift start time. Now if their work involves a taxi or pass from that depot to another location then yes of course that is part of their daily diagram and the TOC’s responsibility.

I was referring to relying on taxis from your home address to your place of work.

Your post was talking about bringing the first trains off a rolling stock depot, how the driver gets to said rolling stock depot is the TOCs business not the drivers issue. I'd suggest you didn't say what you meant!

Its worth remembering too that the days of traincrew depots being located at rolling stock depots are over, 95+% are located at stations.

 

[Sheridan]

Your post was talking about bringing the first trains off a rolling stock depot, how the driver gets to said rolling stock depot is the TOCs business not the drivers issue. I'd suggest you didn't say what you meant!

Its worth remembering too that the days of traincrew depots being located at rolling stock depots are over, 95+% are located at stations.

It seemed pretty clear to me that when they referred to ‘being rostered to bring the first train off the depot’ they just meant that it’s an early start, and were referring to how the driver gets into work in the first place.

And to address the second point, although traincrew are based at stations, the depots are often within walking distance and with a suitable walking route. I understand that even at Crewe, to use one example, station-based traincrew walk the fairly long distance to the Arriva traincare facility rather than getting road transport.

 

[IanXC]

It seemed pretty clear to me that when they referred to ‘being rostered to bring the first train off the depot’ they just meant that it’s an early start, and were referring to how the driver gets into work in the first place.

And to address the second point, although traincrew are based at stations, the depots are often within walking distance and with a suitable walking route. I understand that even at Crewe, to use one example, station-based traincrew walk the fairly long distance to the Arriva traincare facility rather than getting road transport.

I disagree. You don't "bring a train off a station" after all.

Often? Its almost unheard of these days. Polmadie, Old Oak Common, Shields, Corkerhill and Salisbury are the only ones I can think of/see from looking at the driver route knowledge thread.

Of course this isn't really relevant because the issue is how the driver gets to their booking on point at the traincrew depot.

 

[Sheridan]

I disagree. You don't "bring a train off a station" after all.

Of course this isn't really relevant because the issue is how the driver gets to their booking on point at the traincrew depot.

Well yes I think we agree on that. But if you’re rostered to bring the first train off the depot, you’ll need to get to your booking-on point before that, wherever it may be. I agree the poster you were quoting might have put it more clearly but it was still pretty clear what they meant imo.

But just to continue the slightly off-topic discussion, in the areas I’m familiar with, Holyhead, Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury and possibly Machynlleth depots are all pretty much in the same location as the station.

 

[Horizon22]

Your post was talking about bringing the first trains off a rolling stock depot, how the driver gets to said rolling stock depot is the TOCs business not the drivers issue. I'd suggest you didn't say what you meant!

Its worth remembering too that the days of traincrew depots being located at rolling stock depots are over, 95+% are located at stations.

No I said “bring the first train off depot”. In this regard “depot” is the “crew location” and may not mean an actual depot. I think this terminology is well understood, certainly in this forum and for the context of this thread. It could have been said “diagrammed starts for the first trains”, but anyway hopefully everyone is clear on the intent now.

Your premise is also wrong in some regards - you said Old Oak Common so let’s use Elizabeth line as an example - Plumstead has a sidings with no corresponding station, Ilford has a depot (also true for Greater Anglia), Maidenhead and Gidea Park have sidings which are a walk from the station and so on. On GWR, Paddington is the depot sure but involves taxing to North Pole and Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads have SPM and Stoke Gifford as equivalents. And even if they are co-located on a station, it won’t matter if you’re driving the first train!

The latter of these will involve taxis from station to the rolling stock ‘depot’ but you will still need to be at the station by maybe 0300-0400, for which public transport may well not be running.

 

[357]

My train depot is an hour from my traincrew depot.

If the first part of the shift is a taxi to said depot, the taxi can be changed via an official process to collect us from our house instead of the traincrew depot.

Just thought that needed noting.

 

[Horizon22]

My train depot is an hour from my traincrew depot.

If the first part of the shift is a taxi to said depot, the taxi can be changed via an official process to collect us from our house instead of the traincrew depot.

Just thought that needed noting.

I don’t believe that is universal - and I would indeed say it is rare - for all TOCs though.

 

[172007]

We have drivers and guards who cycle to work. One works permanent earlies and cycles 8 miles to work each day and then train home. Others get taxis as they don't have a driving license. Taxis are easy to prebook and are as reliable as your own car at 06:00 in the morning.

 

[Horizon22]

We have drivers and guards who cycle to work. One works permanent earlies and cycles 8 miles to work each day and then train home. Others get taxis as they don't have a driving license. Taxis are easy to prebook and are as reliable as your own car at 06:00 in the morning.

How do they get back to work for the following early shift? Or do they just take the train back with the bike?

 

[IanXC]

No I said “bring the first train off depot”. In this regard “depot” is the “crew location” and may not mean an actual depot. I think this terminology is well understood, certainly in this forum and for the context of this thread. It could have been said “diagrammed starts for the first trains”, but anyway hopefully everyone is clear on the intent now.

Your premise is also wrong in some regards - you said Old Oak Common so let’s use Elizabeth line as an example - Plumstead has a sidings with no corresponding station, Ilford has a depot (also true for Greater Anglia), Maidenhead and Gidea Park have sidings which are a walk from the station and so on. On GWR, Paddington is the depot sure but involves taxing to North Pole and Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads have SPM and Stoke Gifford as equivalents. And even if they are co-located on a station, it won’t matter if you’re driving the first train!

The latter of these will involve taxis from station to the rolling stock ‘depot’ but you will still need to be at the station by maybe 0300-0400, for which public transport may well not be running.

I could not disagree more. You do not "bring a train off depot" when you depart a station. Bringing a train off depot is a non passenger movement from a stabling location. You may think that is well understood terminology but you would be wrong; this is entirely alien to the railway in the North for instance.

You claim that my premise is wrong, but then go on to describe exactly the reasons why it is correct! If I am a GWR driver it is of no consequence to me whatsoever how I get from Paddington to North Pole! Coming back to your original post:

Should they? It really depends. You may well be rostered to bring the first train off the depot and there are no buses nearby. Now, somebody could rely on taxis but it's certainly a risk. So must you have one? No. But I would suggest many would see it as a preferable.

The fact there are no buses near the rolling stock depot is irrelevant, the question is whether the driver can reliably get to the traincrew depot, and you have totally ignored the possibility that someone is able to walk or cycle to their signing on point.

 

[172007]

How do they get back to work for the following early shift? Or do they just take the train back with the bike?

Travels home on the train with their bike then cycles 1 mile to their home

 

[357]

I don’t believe that is universal - and I would indeed say it is rare - for all TOCs though.

The distance to the depot or changing the taxis?

I'd agree about the distance between crew and train depots - but every TOC I've worked for in my career has let you change taxis under certain circumstances.

Now that our notices are all digitally delivered to us it's even easier - in the past I still had to make sure I was able to visit a physical signing on point somewhere before putting a key in a train.