Should there be a "National Bus Collection"?

[GusB]

No, I don't mean a collection of Leyland Nationals and nor do I mean a collection of National Bus Company vehicles!

I was rather saddened to hear about the demise (alleged) of one particular bus that I remember somewhat fondly from my childhood. I can't remember why but I was searching for photos the other day and happened to come across this:

The end for a rare beast.

Ok, its an inanimate object and one shouldn't feel loss when the end comes, but personally I can't seem to help myself when its something rare. This was the last surviving Dennis Lancet with a Perkins V8 engine, one of a small number new to Northern Scottish in their quest to find a viable...

www.flickr.com

The caption reads:

The end for a rare beast.
Ok, its an inanimate object and one shouldn't feel loss when the end comes, but personally I can't seem to help myself when its something rare.

This was the last surviving Dennis Lancet with a Perkins V8 engine, one of a small number new to Northern Scottish in their quest to find a viable replacement for their Ford 'R Series' fleet.

A506 FSS had been up for grabs several times in the last half a dozen years and I have to confess, I can't comprehend why such an interesting bus has never had anyone put their hand up for it from north of the border.

Without much further comment, I find out today that based on incorrect information, the latest owner just scrapped it. What a total shame.

The photo was taken a few years ago when the Alexander 'P Type' bodied bus made its last trip to Scotland.

FSS . . . FFS!

I've no way of verifying whether or not this information is correct and the "based on incorrect information" bit is a little confusing but, if true, it's a great shame that the bus has been lost; more so considering the effort that seems to have gone in to preserving it in the first place, as well as the fact that it was quite a rare vehicle (one of five with that body/chassis combination).

With old cars there's now an issue where the really old stuff just doesn't float as many boats as it used to, mainly because the people who had such fond memories have passed on and younger generations are nostalgic for stuff that was around when they were young and I fear that a similar thing will happen with older buses and coaches.

We have the National Collection for railway locomotives and rolling stock; should there be such a collection for rare buses and coaches? At the very least, should there be some kind of national register? I would have thought that A506FSS would have made a good home at one of the Scottish museums, either at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum, the Glasgow Vintage Vehicles Trust or, perhaps more appropriately, the Grampian Transport Museum.

ND6 wasn't the most refined bus in the world but it was one that looked and sounded completely different to anything else that was on the go at the time. Video below:

 

[34D]

As always, who would fund it, where might it be located, and how do we differentiate what should be part of a national collection versus the local larger organised groups (like Bridgeton or Latholmond, in the case of anything scottish).

 

[Ashley Hill]

It’s a nice idea but I don’t think there would be a massive public support for it beyond enthusiasts. Railways have always had some sort of fascination from the public which is why tourists visit the NRM. Likewise the public in general prefer to see old steam locos, how many give 84001 more than a passing glance? To the non-enthusiast most will probably look at some old charabanc than the unfortunate Dennis Lancet.

 

[Man of Kent]

There was an attempt at a register by the British Bus Preservation Group, but it gave up in 2019.
There's a story mostly behind a paywall on this link https://cbwmagazine.com/bbpg-says-goodbye/

 

[318266]

The principal issue is, nearly every Scottish bus museum is full (and last I knew it was worse south of the border). Having been around a few in my time, a lot of them tend to be ran by people with their own ideas of what is "worth" preserving et cetera. Some museums are better than others at being open to weird and wonderful buses, but if for whatever reason the chairman/landowner/whatever becomes disgruntled you can be on a very quick path out, and often left with little custom (especially when you have such a rare bus as a Dennis Lancet, which you might have to fashion your own parts for) when you put it up for sale.

If you have money, the most secure way is to rent a big old warehouse (ideally if said warehouse used to be a bus depot in its own right), but unfortunately (and especially with younger enthusiasts) people are coming onto the scene who have no experience of the bus sector other than sitting on them and listening to a ZF Ecomat gearbox that sounds like it is going to die in approximately 20 seconds, and deciding they must buy that rare vehicle, before seeing the parts bill and sending it to scrap without ever advertising it on the market. Many vehicles I would have had a mild interest in have succumbed to this fate, including an A1 Coaches Trident, and a few rarer vehicles such as articulated Omnicities and Citaros with the fuel bill as well - and I can only see more people I know ruining good buses like this, including one entirely unique vehicle with Scottish heritage... but hopefully that'll end up in my hands soon enough.

 

[TR673]

There's a project by some people known as "the Bus Inspectors" (see web link) to assess Britain's heritage buses and build up a register of which ones are more historically significant. They run a podcast going into a little bit of detail about what they're doing, aimed more at a general audience than enthusiasts but still worth a listen.

The Bus Inspectors are on a mission to make sure the historical significance of each bus is properly understood and documented for generations to come. They are touring the UK’s museums and collections to see the vehicles, hear their stories and collect information that will enable the National Association of Road Transport Museums to grade the nation’s heritage buses and coaches.

For such a major project I've no idea why it is not better known or more widely talked about in preservation/enthusiasts circles. I find it especially interesting in the parts where they talk about the need to secure the future of vehicles whose owners are of the older generation and won't be around forever, and how some succumb to being converted into cafes etc. Ideally, as an industry, bus preservation really ought to raise its profile to the public beyond just red Routemasters and "the one they went to school on" to make sure there's interest in keeping the currently preserved buses safe for the future.

 

[BuhSnarf]

but unfortunately (and especially with younger enthusiasts) people are coming onto the scene who have no experience of the bus sector other than sitting on them and listening to a ZF Ecomat gearbox that sounds like it is going to die in approximately 20 seconds, and deciding they must buy that rare vehicle, before seeing the parts bill and sending it to scrap without ever advertising it on the market.

This seems a bit harsh to levy this "especially" towards younger enthusiasts. There's plenty of older enthusiasts who buy buses without assessing whether they can actually spend the time / money on restoring them before scrapping them.

 

[318266]

This seems a bit harsh to levy this "especially" towards younger enthusiasts. There's plenty of older enthusiasts who buy buses without assessing whether they can actually spend the time / money on restoring them before scrapping them.

Maybe it's a Scottish matter, but being a younger enthusiast myself I am seeing a lot of it at the minute - perhaps it is a bit of a trend - whereas most older enthusiasts around here know roughly the cost and at least tend to re-market the vehicle rather than consider it condemned.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This seems a bit harsh to levy this "especially" towards younger enthusiasts. There's plenty of older enthusiasts who buy buses without assessing whether they can actually spend the time / money on restoring them before scrapping them.

Maybe it's a Scottish matter, but being a younger enthusiast myself I am seeing a lot of it at the minute - perhaps it is a bit of a trend - whereas most older enthusiasts around here know roughly the cost and at least tend to re-market the vehicle rather than consider it condemned.

TBF, the younger enthusiasts are probably worse off financially so are less able to cope when the bills hit. I didn't see it as a pejorative statement.

Also, we tend to go for the buses that we remember from our youth; that's entirely natural. Whilst older buses are more difficult to obtain spares for than a more modern vehicle where examples are available more readily, modern vehicles are a lot more complex and sophisticated.

 

[warthogsoveruk]

No, I don't mean a collection of Leyland Nationals and nor do I mean a collection of National Bus Company vehicles!

I was rather saddened to hear about the demise (alleged) of one particular bus that I remember somewhat fondly from my childhood. I can't remember why but I was searching for photos the other day and happened to come across this:

The end for a rare beast.

Ok, its an inanimate object and one shouldn't feel loss when the end comes, but personally I can't seem to help myself when its something rare. This was the last surviving Dennis Lancet with a Perkins V8 engine, one of a small number new to Northern Scottish in their quest to find a viable...

www.flickr.com

The caption reads:


I've no way of verifying whether or not this information is correct and the "based on incorrect information" bit is a little confusing but, if true, it's a great shame that the bus has been lost; more so considering the effort that seems to have gone in to preserving it in the first place, as well as the fact that it was quite a rare vehicle (one of five with that body/chassis combination).

With old cars there's now an issue where the really old stuff just doesn't float as many boats as it used to, mainly because the people who had such fond memories have passed on and younger generations are nostalgic for stuff that was around when they were young and I fear that a similar thing will happen with older buses and coaches.

We have the National Collection for railway locomotives and rolling stock; should there be such a collection for rare buses and coaches? At the very least, should there be some kind of national register? I would have thought that A506FSS would have made a good home at one of the Scottish museums, either at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum, the Glasgow Vintage Vehicles Trust or, perhaps more appropriately, the Grampian Transport Museum.

ND6 wasn't the most refined bus in the world but it was one that looked and sounded completely different to anything else that was on the go at the time. Video below:

I love the 'meaty' sound of the engine.

 

[GusB]

I love the 'meaty' sound of the engine.

The unmistakable sound of the Perkins V8; also common in fire appliances of the era. You could hear them for miles on a still day!

 

[Leedsbusman]

We have the National Collection for railway locomotives and rolling stock; should there be such a collection for rare buses and coaches? At the very least, should there be some kind of national register? I would have thought that A506FSS would have made a good home at one of the Scottish museums, either at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum, the Glasgow Vintage Vehicles Trust or, perhaps more appropriately, the Grampian Transport Museum.

ND6 wasn't the most refined bus in the world but it was one that looked and sounded completely different to anything else that was on the go at the time. Video below:

Playing devils advocate - a National Collection should be for nationally significant buses not rarities. I doubt a Dennis Lancet would fit into an objective view of Nationally Significant Collection. There is a small bus collection in the Science Musuem collection, including a National.