Should the UK replace Standard and First class with 'hard' and 'soft'?

[squizzler]

I understand that in China, instead of buying first class and standard class travel on daytime railway trips, you are given a choice between 'hard seat' and 'soft seat'. Should this terminology be adopted in the UK?

It would lay to rest the British obsession with 'class', at least as far as railway travel is concerned.

Since trains with soft seating in standard class are being phased out, hard and soft have also become more accurate than 'class' as a descriptor of the main difference between the premier and normal coaches: a more spacious softer perch.

Finally, people who choose to travel 'hard seating' will no longer be able to justify complaining about seating comfort.

 

[class26]

in the case of the 800`s it will be hard and very hard

 

[squizzler]

in the case of the 800`s it will be hard and very hard

Boom!

 

[Merseysider]

No, because on several TOCs such as GTR, seating is exactly the same.

 

[D365]

It would lay to rest the British obsession with 'class', at least as far as railway travel is concerned.

I don't see a particular obsession.

 

[stut]

I prefer the Japanese approach - Ordinary Cars and Green Cars. Though this might get confusing on GWR.

 

[gallafent]

No, because on several TOCs such as GTR, seating is exactly the same.

Really? In which trains? The 700s definitely have more comfortable seats in 1st.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I prefer the Japanese approach - Ordinary Cars and Green Cars. Though this might get confusing on GWR.

I don't think that's very descriptive. Economy and premium might not be a bad choice, because they describe the price you pay for them and the service you get rather than the social class implications.

 

[Merseysider]

Really? In which trains? The 700s definitely have more comfortable seats in 1st.

The 387/2 units used by GTR’s brand Gatwick Express have identical seats in First/Standard.

Or the 377s used on the routes branded “Southern”...

 

[mrcheek]

Maybe on some services they could change "First" and "Standard", to "Free coffee" and "That'll be £3.50 please!"

 

[Kingspanner]

Half-Empty and Rammed?

 

[Mogz]

I don’t get the services where both Standard and First are both 2+2 seating, just with a different style of seats. I note that the formerly excellent 2+1 First Class on SWR Class 444s has been replaced with 2+2.

LNWR 2+2 First Class on the Class 350’s uses the same seats that are available in Standard on Southern Railway...

and on some Southern Railway services the only difference between First and Standard is that First Class seats have an antimacassar!

 

[hexagon789]

I understand that in China, instead of buying first class and standard class travel on daytime railway trips, you are given a choice between 'hard seat' and 'soft seat'. Should this terminology be adopted in the UK?

It would lay to rest the British obsession with 'class', at least as far as railway travel is concerned.

Since trains with soft seating in standard class are being phased out, hard and soft have also become more accurate than 'class' as a descriptor of the main difference between the premier and normal coaches: a more spacious softer perch.

Finally, people who choose to travel 'hard seating' will no longer be able to justify complaining about seating comfort.

I don’t get the services where both Standard and First are both 2+2 seating, just with a different style of seats. I note that the formerly excellent 2+1 First Class on SWR Class 444s has been replaced with 2+2.

LNWR 2+2 First Class on the Class 350’s uses the same seats that are available in Standard on Southern Railway...

and on some Southern Railway services the only difference between First and Standard is that First Class seats have an antimacassar!

How about doing a CIÉ? Abolish first class tickets, instead sell upgrades to "Superstandard". Fast forward a decade (from 1972 to 1984) when when you get new rolling stock in place, then sell Superstandard upgrades (which you've been slowly increasing) for seats in new coaches (Mk3s) but which are simply bog-standard, Standard class seats but in a dedicated vehicle 'dressed-up' with curtains?

One way of discouraging first class travel!

And yes, they really did that!

And at the same time they had previous, higher-quality Superstandard coaches (Mk2Ds) with better appointed seating running around on other slower services, and often declassified.

The idea of what constitutes "First Class" seems to vary wildly through time and between different stocks.

 

[R G NOW.]

What about 'ordinary' and premier classes, with the premier getting free coffee or tea, and food.

 

[hexagon789]

What about 'ordinary' and premier classes, with the premier getting free coffee or tea, and food.

With similar or different seating?

 

[R G NOW.]

With similar or different seating?

The same as the gwr hst sets, with leather seats in premier class, formerly 1st.

 

[Kite159]

I don’t get the services where both Standard and First are both 2+2 seating, just with a different style of seats. I note that the formerly excellent 2+1 First Class on SWR Class 444s has been replaced with 2+2.

LNWR 2+2 First Class on the Class 350’s uses the same seats that are available in Standard on Southern Railway...

and on some Southern Railway services the only difference between First and Standard is that First Class seats have an antimacassar!

For services for the London commuter belt, paying first class is more a way to increase the chance of getting a seat in the peaks.

 

[gazthomas]

Expensive or Very Expensive?

Restricted or no view seats could be sold like internal cabins on cruise ships?

 

[xotGD]

Standard and sub-standard.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Really? In which trains? The 700s definitely have more comfortable seats in 1st.

They do , and you get more leg room , width and such benefits as tables in a good % of seats. Still "hard" seats though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They do , and you get more leg room , width and such benefits as tables in a good % of seats. Still "hard" seats though.

The "wonderful" Fainsa Sophia, though to me they are more comfortable than regular ones because they are about 4" higher than the standard version so the headrest doesn't cut into my shoulders.

As long as nobody is sat next to me I actualy prefer Standard on those.