Should the South Wales metro routes be named?

[Christian Schm]

mods note - split from this thread

More important than google maps, could we have route numbers (or names) for the Metro routes? London has it, Metrolink has doen it now too, every Metro in Europe has it, what is this idea that it is not needed here???

 

[EveningStarr]

More important than google maps, could we have route numbers (or names) for the Metro routes? London has it, Metrolink has doen it now too, every Metro in Europe has it, what is this idea that it is not needed here???

I suppose because there aren't all that many, and they're already referred to as the Line terminus anyway. I.e Coryton Line, Treherbert Line etc.
Collectively we refer to the 'Taff trains' or the 'TAM', encompassing everything through Radyr, and 'Rhymney Valley' if including Caerphilly, Ystrad Mynach, Bargoed and Rhymney.
You'll also see reference to 'Ponty-Bays' for such specific diagrams. 'Rhondda' for Treherbert etc.
Lots of different names, but all descriptive and passengers and staff alike know what you're referring to.

 

[AdamWW]

I suppose because there aren't all that many, and they're already referred to as the Line terminus anyway. I.e Coryton Line, Treherbert Line etc.

Quite - they do all have names and are generally referred to as such by TfW. They are named after the terminus, apart from the City Line (the route through Fairwater and Danescourt etc.) and the Vale of Glamorgan line.
All nicely descriptive except for the City Line and I'm not sure what else you'd do for that one.

(I will concede that I'm not sure I've heard the phrase "Barry Island Line" used though).

I do not think that many people's lives would be enhanced if they had to remember that the M2 goes to Treherbert and the M6 to Rhymney, or worse they get given new names and we have to remember that they're the Bevan and the Edwards lines.

 

[John R]

The Rhondda line would surely be the Boyce line. After all, the wires are now Live at Treorchy….

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The Rhondda line would surely be the Boyce line. After all, the wires are now Live at Treorchy….

You maxed out with that one. It makes a lot more sense than the daft names they're trying to introduce on the London Overground.

 

[Qing4theloo]

Maxed out ...

I think the main benefit of naming/numbering/colouring lines would be for tourists and visitors. SWM is largely aimed at local people who usually know where they want to go and which train they need to get.
An interesting exception - I see from another forum that there may be as many as 6000 French rugby fans arriving at Cardiff Airport this weekend. Surely they're not hoping to just hop on the VoG train at Rhoose?

 

[Smwrff]

It would make more sense to rename the Treherbert line to Rhondda line, Aberdare line to Cynon line (especially with the Hirwaun extension), Merthyr is ok as-is. Collectively the Rhondda, Cynon & Merthyr lines - or Taff Valley lines.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

It would make more sense to rename the Treherbert line to Rhondda line, Aberdare line to Cynon line (especially with the Hirwaun extension), Merthyr is ok as-is. Collectively the Rhondda, Cynon & Merthyr lines - or Taff Valley lines.

Or, for nostalgia's sake, the Taff Valley Railway.

 

[cdfclipper]

I think the main benefit of naming/numbering/colouring lines would be for tourists and visitors. SWM is largely aimed at local people who usually know where they want to go and which train they need to get.

There's quite a nice map that I've seen before on the TfW website that had distinct colours for each of the Metro routes. Would be a nice touch to see this rolled out in more places

 

[AdamWW]

There's quite a nice map that I've seen before on the TfW website that had distinct colours for each of the Metro routes. Would be a nice touch to see this rolled out in more places

The FLIRTs seem to have the ability to do colour on their destination boards - it would be nice to see use made of that too.

 

[Smwrff]

That is a nice map - but while it works temporarily with the Pontypridd- Bay services, in the future all of the TAM lines will alternate between Central and Bay...so needs some more work.

 

[Christian Schm]

Well they don't really use their destinations. There's no signage or announcements anywhere in Cardiff Central or Queen Street for, say, the "Rhymney Line", the "Merthy Line", etc. Instead the show the final destination. But is a train to Caerphilly a 'Rhymney Line' train - it doesn't say. Instead they announce all the stations - which for a Metro is madness, they certainly don't announce all the stations to, say, Epping in West Ruislip!

And maybe I missed something, but are there line diagramms in trains or on platforms? I feel this is all bog-standard for what is supposed to be a Metro

 

[AdamWW]

Well they don't really use their destinations. There's no signage or announcements anywhere in Cardiff Central or Queen Street for, say, the "Rhymney Line", the "Merthy Line", etc. Instead the show the final destination. But is a train to Caerphilly a 'Rhymney Line' train - it doesn't say. Instead they announce all the stations - which for a Metro is madness, they certainly don't announce all the stations to, say, Epping in West Ruislip!

It's true that the line names aren't used on stations or trains, but they certainly are used in communications, e.g. relating to both planned and unplanned disruption.

In other news, the new platform at Ty Glas looks as if it's ready to go though there may be non obvious work that still needs doing and presumably there may also be paperwork to be completed before it can reopen.

 

[Christian Schm]

It's true that the line names aren't used on stations or trains, but they certainly are used in communications, e.g. relating to both planned and unplanned disruption.

Which makes it even weirder that they lines are not formallly named (or numbered)

 

[WelshBluebird]

I mean its no different to other rail lines across the country surely? Lots of lines have names that are used whej communicating disruption etc, but most of them dont have specific signage at stations or on trains referencing that name.

 

[AdamWW]

I mean its no different to other rail lines across the country surely? Lots of lines have names that are used whej communicating disruption etc, but most of them dont have specific signage at stations or on trains referencing that name.

I agree but I think the fact that TfW is describing the system as a "Metro" is giving people expectations that it will be treated in a different way.

 

[edwin_m]

Considering the frequency of service, number of calling points and the bilingual announcements, I agree it would make sense to use line names instead of announcing every station. Otherwise there is a risk the train leaves before the announcement has finished.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Considering the frequency of service, number of calling points and the bilingual announcements, I agree it would make sense to use line names instead of announcing every station. Otherwise there is a risk the train leaves before the announcement has finished.

I really think the Rhymney line, for example, should be one big entity (it doesnt necessary have to be called the rhymney line) with branches to Penarth, Coryton and Barry island. Announcements could go on the lines of "this is a Rhymney line service to Penarth". I think this is similar to how they handle Northern line (tube) trains terminating at its branches of Mill Hill East and Batteries PS.

 

[edwin_m]

I really think the Rhymney line, for example, should be one big entity (it doesnt necessary have to be called the rhymney line) with branches to Penarth, Coryton and Barry island. Announcements could go on the lines of "this is a Rhymney line service to Penarth". I think this is similar to how they handle Northern line (tube) trains terminating at its branches of Mill Hill East and Batteries PS.

If it was one bit entity they probably couldn't call it the Rhymney Line, as "This is the Rhymney Line service to Penarth" could confuse people. Perhaps just go by the destinations and don't include "line" at all, so Penarth trains would just be advertised as Penarth? A "via" would be needed for City Line vs Llandaff.

 

[Akela]

Well they don't really use their destinations. There's no signage or announcements anywhere in Cardiff Central or Queen Street for, say, the "Rhymney Line", the "Merthy Line", etc. Instead the show the final destination. But is a train to Caerphilly a 'Rhymney Line' train - it doesn't say. Instead they announce all the stations - which for a Metro is madness, they certainly don't announce all the stations to, say, Epping in West Ruislip!

And maybe I missed something, but are there line diagramms in trains or on platforms? I feel this is all bog-standard for what is supposed to be a Metro

You would think, but Metrolink in Manchester doesn’t do it and instead just shows the terminal station on departure boards, to the confusion of every new arrival to the city who’s trying to figure out which service goes from Piccadilly to Victoria (it’s the Bury one, unless it terminates at an earlier station on the line in which case you better consult the map).

 

[rf_ioliver]

If it was one bit entity they probably couldn't call it the Rhymney Line, as "This is the Rhymney Line service to Penarth" could confuse people. Perhaps just go by the destinations and don't include "line" at all, so Penarth trains would just be advertised as Penarth? A "via" would be needed for City Line vs Llandaff.

Here in Finland, the commuter trains use letters for their routes/calling patterns. Announcements are "A-train to Leppävaara" or "K-train to Kerava", and then in the opposite direction "A-train to Helsinki", "K-train to Helsinki" etc. The maps of the routes are very clear and I've never seen any confusion here. Also, you can skip the stops, so announcing in three languages isn't an issue.

So, the lines could simply be addressed as such "Next train is the A service to Cardiff Central, Tren nesaf yw'r gwasanaeth A i Gaerdydd Canolog".

The only issue is probably the letter "C" ... who gets it? Caerffili, Coryto, Casnewydd, Caerdydd?

 

[Dai Corner]

What would you do about trains which come down one valley, loop round through Cardiff and go up a different one?

 

[Smwrff]

The RER lines in Paris are numbered A, B etc but with final destinations shown as A1, A3 for the westward trains with numbers indicating the different branches; A2, A4 etc for eastbound.

So we could A1 Merthyr; A3 Aberdare (or Hirwaun etc): A5 Treherbert; A2 Cardiff Bay; A4 Central (maybe A6 Central via City line): all lines coloured say red on maps.

Meanwhile B1 Rhymney, B3 Coryton, B4 Penarth; B6 Barry etc. All ines coloured say Green

C1 Ebbw Vale ; C2 Maesteg etc

 

[Bob Price]

The RER lines in Paris are numbered A, B etc but with final destinations shown as A1, A3 for the westward trains with numbers indicating the different branches; A2, A4 etc for eastbound.

So we could A1 Merthyr; A3 Aberdare (or Hirwaun etc): A5 Treherbert; A2 Cardiff Bay; A4 Central (maybe A6 Central via City line): all lines coloured say red on maps.

Meanwhile B1 Rhymney, B3 Coryton, B4 Penarth; B6 Barry etc. All ines coloured say Green

C1 Ebbw Vale ; C2 Maesteg etc

That would work. It would allow the colours on the map to remain.

However how much would it cost to do this? So she, maps, literature, rerecording station and train announcements?

Is it worth it?

 

[Qing4theloo]

Tyne and Wear Metro use colours, (although there are only two of them, yellow and green).
Paris Metro use numbers (with colours).
I think either would work well in South Wales. To use colours, they would only need four or five (depending on things like whether they would consider the TAM lines as one line)

Naming them after places is risking widespread confusion as none of the lines actually starts at the Central station.
The other alternative would be to name them after prominent Welsh people e.g. Llewellyn, Iolo (Morganwg), Shirley Bassey

 

[AdamWW]

I can't actually see the problem that is being solved here.

What would you do about trains which come down one valley, loop round through Cardiff and go up a different one?

Good question but it's confusing with the current arrangements too.

 

[Smwrff]

You dont need a problem to make an improvement. But the purpose is to make the routes clearer for travellers - especially occasional users such as tourists.

I think that a simple colour code would be enough - say TAM lines in red, Rhymney/VoG in Green, Ebbw/Maesteg in Blue, future 'Burns' lines in Yellow. Main lines in black.