Should the Manchester metrolink introduce ticket barriers at key stations?

[generalnerd]

The metrolink experiences fare evasion like all systems, but it’s size and likely huge operating costs compared to other light rail systems, along with its considerable segregation from road or public areas, could it have fare gates added to key stations and some suburban stations.

Whilst it wouldn’t solve all fare evasion, ticket barriers at Victoria, Piccadilly, deansgate and cornbrook (with ticket machines moved off the platform to before the gates) along with other stations might benefit the system (primarily stopping casual fare evasion of visitors and those not familiar with the system) upon arriving/departing major stations and tourism areas.

 

[edwin_m]

I'd have thought fare evasion was more likely by locals who think they know enough to take a chance and do it intentionally. Those people would just stay on the tram into the city centre, where the stops are quite literally in the street, there is no space for barriers and no way of preventing people avoiding them. The barriers might actually make the problem worse, because the management might think the evasion problem is solved and cut back on the current random checks.

Visitors probably won't have that level of knowledge or intent and will be expecting to have to pay, and I'd say the ticket machines are obvious enough to anyone intending to pay but not sure how. A fairly minor exception to this is people coming off a train who might expect their ticket to be valid on the tram too - but hopefully Bee Network will sort that out in time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The bus rapid transit system in Cape Town has barriers on bus platforms of a similar size to the Metrolink city centre stops, but I guess it would necessitate them being staffed.

 

[johncrossley]

They have queuing systems at stops servicing football grounds where they restrict access to the platforms to those with a ticket. These are only in operation on event days.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Metrolink don't (currently) use ticket stock with a magstripe and it's possible to buy tickets on buses and mobile apps that have Metrolink validity (probably some scratchcard tickets too) so it would likely be a non-starter at the moment without a significant investment in gate functionality.

It would also incur significant staffing costs if they were to be in use from first to last tram.

 

[507 001]

Installing ticket barriers is a none starter.

1) For the most part there isn't the space.
2) Barriers would need to be staffed. Considering each station can have up to 6 entrances that's a lot of staff. Staff cost money. Staff probably cost more money than we lose by not having the barriers.

 

[generalnerd]

Metrolink don't (currently) use ticket stock with a magstripe and it's possible to buy tickets on buses and mobile apps that have Metrolink validity (probably some scratchcard tickets too) so it would likely be a non-starter at the moment without a significant investment in gate functionality.

It would also incur significant staffing costs if they were to be in use from first to last tram.

Couldn’t they add qr codes to the ticket, or am I being a complete idiot and missing the point.

Installing ticket barriers is a none starter.

1) For the most part there isn't the space.
2) Barriers would need to be staffed. Considering each station can have up to 6 entrances that's a lot of staff. Staff cost money. Staff probably cost more money than we lose by not having the barriers.

1. Most of the ex nr stations have the space, along with some of the major stations listed above.
2. You could close some of the other entrances at stations with ticket barriers or have a small gate line and a help button to call staff across. Alternatively, if your ticket fails you can always walk to the main entrance.

 

[yorksrob]

All the ticket machines are on the platforms, so I don't see this working.

 

[scrapy]

I don't think this would really improve things, as stated above its pretty much impossible to barrier on street stations, if they know that Piccadilly, Victoria etc are barriers then they will just travel to Picc Gardens, Shudehill etc. They already have manual turnstiles for events at Old Trafford, Trafford Bar, Wharfside and Etihad. There's the odd station where it may work, Bury for example but I cant see barriers becoming widespread.

 

[sluf]

I cant see there is any space at most stops. I use the tram network quite frequently and every so often the tram gets blitzed by teams checking tickets and I am amazed the number of people who just get off or asked to get off yet all the trams have penalty fare stickers everywhere.

 

[507 001]

1. Most of the ex nr stations have the space, along with some of the major stations listed above.
2. You could close some of the other entrances at stations with ticket barriers or have a small gate line and a help button to call staff across. Alternatively, if your ticket fails you can always walk to the main entrance.

1) Piccadilly does, Victoria does not. DCF definitely does not.
2) You really couldn’t close any of the entrances without causing accessibility issues or safety issues, and even if you do staffing the stations throughout service hours is expensive!

It’s a none starter.

 

[Djgr]

The metrolink experiences fare evasion like all systems, but it’s size and likely huge operating costs compared to other light rail systems, along with its considerable segregation from road or public areas, could it have fare gates added to key stations and some suburban stations.

Whilst it wouldn’t solve all fare evasion, ticket barriers at Victoria, Piccadilly, deansgate and cornbrook (with ticket machines moved off the platform to before the gates) along with other stations might benefit the system (primarily stopping casual fare evasion of visitors and those not familiar with the system) upon arriving/departing major stations and tourism areas.

Of course another approach would be to make the system free

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course another approach would be to make the system free

Then it'd be constantly full of people engaging in ASB, homeless people using it as sleeping accommodation etc, and there'd be no legal basis to remove them.

 

[Andyh82]

A better idea would be just to step up the teams who do spot checks so people encounter them more often

 

[waterboo]

Just because you have a barrier does not mean that people will not try to evade a fair - a la London Underground.

 

[Trackman]

A better idea would be just to step up the teams who do spot checks so people encounter them more often

I thought they already had done.
Again, as mentioned earlier, funding is the key and how the income equates with staffing costs.

 

[scrapy]

Just because you have a barrier does not mean that people will not try to evade a fair - a la London Underground.

It will not stop the hardened fair dodger. Those that casually take a gamble that there will be no checks for a couple of stops will probably think twice, and those who aren't dodging but have used other systems where pay on board is possible, and assume that Manchester is the same would also pay. But imo barriers would cost a lot more than the revenue lost.

 

[sheff1]

In my view conductors on all trams, as on Sheffield Supertram, would be much better than barriers at a few stops.

 

[mangad]

1) Piccadilly does, Victoria does not. DCF definitely does not.
2) You really couldn’t close any of the entrances without causing accessibility issues or safety issues, and even if you do staffing the stations throughout service hours is expensive!

I'm not convinced Piccadilly does. Yes you could put barriers on the mezzanine at the top of the escalators. However the flow of people in that space would be suboptimal given the way the escalators come down from the main station. As it stands people can very quickly get onto the city-bound platform through that mezzanine. The space isn't that big really, but it's fine because the flow of people through it is highly optimised. Put in barriers and there'd be an interruption to that flow.

The street level access is also very space constrained. And if you scrapped street level access would require everyone to go up escalators only to come down again, which would annoy people as well as adding to the issues on the mezzanine.

It’s a none starter.

Absolutely. The stations where it would be easier to do this would be the ex-BR stations on the Altrincham and Bury lines where the buildings still exist. But realistically Metrolink's a system that has been designed without barriers in mind, in common with most light rail and tramway systems. Retrofitting even a handful of stations would be hugely expensive and incredibly disruptive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2025 ==

Just because you have a barrier does not mean that people will not try to evade a fair - a la London Underground.

Many years ago I was in Paris. One of the metro lines I travelled on had huge gate - far taller than what London has to this day. Plus there was a turnstile in front of the gate.

Looking at them, I'd have thought it impossible to jump the barriers. I was very wrong. The fare evasion levels were far greater than what I ever saw in London. Perhaps because there were no staff to be seen. Either way barriers are definitely not the be-all and end-all of solving fare evasion.

 

[scrapy]

In my view conductors on all trams, as on Sheffield Supertram, would be much better than barriers at a few stops.

And would cost a lot more too. Manchester trams are far busier than Sheffields, conductors would struggle to get down the trams in the peaks.

 

[cool110]

Another issue, you would end up with a Waterloo East/Southwark style no-man's land at the airport.

 

[Starmill]

I thought they already had done.
Again, as mentioned earlier, funding is the key and how the income equates with staffing costs.

Random and intelligence-led ticket checking is already common, and done both onboard and at stops. A substantial number of staff have been recruited in the last few years for roles involved in this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

A better idea would be just to step up the teams who do spot checks so people encounter them more often

Indeed - already the case. Someone travelling to and from the city centre 3-5 times a week will get their tickets checked a few times a month at minimum, on any day of the week and at either the suburban or city centre end, or onboard.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Random and intelligence-led ticket checking is already common, and done both onboard and at stops. A substantial number of staff have been recruited in the last few years for roles involved in this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==


Indeed - already the case. Someone travelling to and from the city centre 3-5 times a week will get their tickets checked a few times a month at minimum, on any day of the week and at either the suburban or city centre end, or onboard.

I can't remember the last time they checked mine, but I don't use the tram much during the week. My tram line is probably also one of the more law abiding lines.

 

[Russel]

You'd need barriers at every station, as on London Underground for it to have a meaningful impact on fare evasion, but would the cost of installation and additional staffing come close to being covered by the additional fare revenue?

Employing a few more revenue inspectors would be a better option.

 

[cool110]

You'd need barriers at every station, as on London Underground for it to have a meaningful impact on fare evasion...

Even LU have a handful of stations with barriers, and a few more with open secondary entrances and "fare-dodger's lifts"

 

[Russel]

Even LU have a handful of stations with barriers, and a few more with open secondary entrances and "fare-dodger's lifts"

Indeed, Euston Squares lift exit caught me out a few years ago when my son was young enough to be in a pushchair, I left the station then had to go back to tap out when I realised! I believe barriers have since been installed though.

 

[Chriso]

Indeed, Euston Squares lift exit caught me out a few years ago when my son was young enough to be in a pushchair, I left the station then had to go back to tap out when I realised! I believe barriers have since been installed though.

Yes there is now a second gateline at Euston Square covering the westbound lift