Should the builders of HS2 be more considerate?

[RobShipway]

Now I know much the railways of the UK needs the HS2, to not only compete against other countries in the world, but to help get passengers from travelling on planes between the likes of London, Manchester, Glasgow and Edingburgh.

However, I have a few friends that live along the HS2 route especially within Warwickshire where the builders of HS2 have seemed to have no care about keeping things such that people can go on with their normal routines, such as public pathways being cut off to the public even though those public pathways are some distance away from where HS2 will run.

One of the issues being the planting of trees, right in the middle of public pathways as per the attached photo.

As my friend posted in Facebook:
I’d like to congratulate HS2 and their contractors in keeping the hoi polloi safe from their groundworks by ensuring we can’t wander off the public right of way. I’d also like to thank them for planting a b****y tree right in the way of the right of way.
I’d like to….but….

Maybe HS2 should apologise to the local people for being inconsiderate?

 

[zwk500]

That's a bit beyond 'Inconsiderate'!

 

[notverydeep]

Probably a case of the left hand’s sub-contractor not knowing what the right hand’s subcontractor is doing, a problem that to be fair will afflict many a large organisation from time to time…

 

[RobShipway]

That's a bit beyond 'Inconsiderate'!

Probably a case of the left hand’s sub-contractor not knowing what the right hand’s subcontractor is doing, a problem that to be fair will afflict many a large organisation from time to time…

I was trying to be polite with my comments and it is not the first time I have seen issues with building HS2. I know that many people like my friend are against HS2 being built, but issues like this inconsideration do not help to mend the barriers between those against and those for HS2.

I do think that once the works have been completed, that those against HS2 may come around once the trees start growing again. But it needs the contractors to be planting them in the right place.

 

[HSTEd]

These sorts of problems are inherent in surface construction projects as large as this one.

Could HS2 be managing it better, certainly.

But if you are going to build a railway in this manner, its going to end up with trouble with the locals throughout construction.

 

[zwk500]

These sorts of probelms are inherent in surface construction projects as large as this one.

Could HS2 be managing it better, certainly.

But if you are going to build a railway in this manner, its going to end up with trouble with the locals throughout construction.

The fence is one thing but planting a tree 3 feet in front of a stile is not defensible in any way, especially be 'oh these things happen'

 

[Fastlane256]

The fence is one thing but planting a tree 3 feet in front of a stile is not defensible in any way, especially be 'oh these things happen'

It’s bad but it’s not as bad as the esso pipeline build. Could HS2 be better managed and more considerate? Absolutely. However, the cost would probably be significantly extra. And, that’s not factoring in the additional time it would take. It doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

 

[zwk500]

It’s bad but it’s not as bad as the esso pipeline build. Could HS2 be better managed and more considerate? Absolutely. However, the cost would probably be significantly extra. And, that’s not factoring in the additional time it would take. It doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

The Tree looks like it's planned to be planted there for the final landscaping, when the road will also presumably be open again. It would not take a massive amount of management thinking to not book the planting until after the road has reopened, at which point it'd be completely fine.

 

[RobShipway]

It’s bad but it’s not as bad as the esso pipeline build. Could HS2 be better managed and more considerate? Absolutely. However, the cost would probably be significantly extra. And, that’s not factoring in the additional time it would take. It doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

The Tree looks like it's planned to be planted there for the final landscaping, when the road will also presumably be open again. It would not take a massive amount of management thinking to not book the planting until after the road has reopened, at which point it'd be completely fine.

I have to agree with Zwk500 and do not agree that the cost of HS2 would be significantly more, if when building the route they where more considerate to those living in the areas where it is being built. I doubt many of the builders of HS2 will be seeing anything of it where they live, so at least they should be considerate to those whose property and local foot paths that they are destroying in building HS2 and have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

Would you want a tree placed in the middle of the foot path where you go for a walk with or without a dog? I certainly would not want it in the middle of any footh paths near to where i live in East Sussex.

 

[tomuk]

I have to agree with Zwk500 and do not agree that the cost of HS2 would be significantly more, if when building the route they where more considerate to those living in the areas where it is being built. I doubt many of the builders of HS2 will be seeing anything of it where they live, so at least they should be considerate to those whose property and local foot paths that they are destroying in building HS2 and have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

Would you want a tree placed in the middle of the foot path where you go for a walk with or without a dog? I certainly would not want it in the middle of any footh paths near to where i live in East Sussex.

They aren't 'destroying' anything alternatives are being provided to disrupted rights of way either temporarily during construction or permanently. In you particular example what is the track the other side of the Heras fencing? Is the right of way still open?

 

[RobShipway]

In you particular example what is the track the other side of the Heras fencing? Is the right of way still open?

I am trying to find out as I do not live local to where the picture is taken, but I believe the track the other side of the Heras fencing is just for HS2 traffic only. If I am correct, then the public right of way has been disrupted without alternatives that can be used by the local public to the area in the photo.

I have had a few friends that live around Warwickshire make similar comments within Facebook and when they have made complaints to the contractors for HS2, they just say that they are doing as instructed and do not give any apology for the inconvenience that they have caused.

Maybe, it is just the people that I know in Warwickshire, but the majority of those did not want HS2 going through Warwickshire, as they believe that it would cause issues as in this thread. Surely, that should have meant that those running the HS2 project should have insisted that the contractors in these areas tread with care, rather than tread over the local people who at some point when HS2 is complete, will have to live with it in their back yard?

 

[Energy]

Maybe, it is just the people that I know in Warwickshire, but the majority of those did not want HS2 going through Warwickshire, as they believe that it would cause issues as in this thread.

Good luck getting to Birmingham without going through Warwickshire!

Surely, that should have meant that those running the HS2 project should have insisted that the contractors in these areas tread with care, rather than tread over the local people who at some point when HS2 is complete, will have to live with it in their back yard?

To be fair in my experience (I live in Warwickshire) HS2 has been fairly considerate, most of its sites are in the middle of nowhere.

HS2 got much more expensive partly because of increased tunnelling to appease the locals. People will always complain, while the placement of the tree is fairly stupid its a small planning mistake, it happens.

 

[HSTEd]

HS2 got much more expensive partly because of increased tunnelling to appease the locals.

A very small part.

The reality is the assumptions used to optimise the project were utter garbage.
We had a whistleblower note that the land values in their databse were junk.

Euston has somehow ballooned to a substantial fraction of the original claimed cost of Phase 1.

The tunnel gets scapegoated but the reality is the costings were fantasy.

Surface construction like this has become extremely expensive.

 

[6Gman]

Contact the County Council to tell them a PROW (public right of way) has been obstructed.

Their job to get it sorted.

 

[181]

alternatives are being provided to disrupted rights of way either temporarily during construction or permanently.

My experience of planning a walk along the Oxfordshire-Buckinghamshire border suggests that here do seem to be quite a lot of closures for the whole period of construction, without much alternative in some cases, and finding out which paths are/aren't open isn't as straightforward as one would hope (especially with EWR in the area as well). I think I eventually estabished that my planned route is feasible with slight variations; hopefully in the next few weeks I'll find out for real.

 

[D365]

Contact the County Council to tell them a PROW (public right of way) has been obstructed.

Their job to get it sorted.

Yes, this is the correct course of action.

 

[stuu]

Surface construction like this has become extremely expensive.

Digging out and landscaping a 300m wide strip of land in order to build a 20m wide railway really can't have helped the budget though. We can't risk anyone seeing the railway from anywhere though, so what can you do

 

[zwk500]

Digging out and landscaping a 300m wide strip of land in order to build a 20m wide railway really can't have helped the budget though. We can't risk anyone seeing the railway from anywhere though, so what can you do

We also don't want to risk a landslip onto the line either.

 

[HSTEd]

Digging out and landscaping a 300m wide strip of land in order to build a 20m wide railway really can't have helped the budget though. We can't risk anyone seeing the railway from anywhere though, so what can you do

As zwk500 has already mentioned, thse days we have to take precautions about earth movement in the vicinity of the infrastructure, the earthworks are also sized to avoid the political pain involved in net spoil production or fill consumption.

You need to restrict gradients on the land near the railway and dig away any material that is more likely to slip.
And unfortunately, once you start building a strip this wide through the British countryside, you are going to start hitting things. And hitting things, like pipes, roads, cables and houses starts to make things extraordinarily expensive.

A lot of other industries, like those building pipelines or similar infrastructure, have outright given new construction on the surface up as impossible.

 

[Trainbike46]

A lot of other industries, like those building pipelines or similar infrastructure, have outright given new construction on the surface up as impossible.

Do they tunnel or bridge all the way now? Or have they given up on new construction entirely? (genuine question)

 

[HSTEd]

Do they tunnel or bridge all the way now? Or have they given up on new construction entirely? (genuine question)

ALl of the above.

To a certain extent they are trying to squeeze capacity out of whatever they have, but there has been a major expansion in the construction of tunneled links for various purposes.

The Woodsmith Mine tunnel is the most extraordinary example, but far from the only one.

 

[stuu]

As zwk500 has already mentioned, thse days we have to take precautions about earth movement in the vicinity of the infrastructure, the earthworks are also sized to avoid the political pain involved in net spoil production or fill consumption.

You need to restrict gradients on the land near the railway and dig away any material that is more likely to slip.
And unfortunately, once you start building a strip this wide through the British countryside, you are going to start hitting things. And hitting things, like pipes, roads, cables and houses starts to make things extraordinarily expensive.

A lot of other industries, like those building pipelines or similar infrastructure, have outright given new construction on the surface up as impossible.

Of course, however, I do not believe for a second that the amount of excavation shown e.g. in this video, is necessary to avoid a landslip.