Should station signage be uniform?

[Michael.Y]

Ludlow is one of the few remaining outposts on the ATW network to still have W&W-branded signage extant. Meanwhile Leominster and Bridgend, amongst others, have had new BR-style signs albeit with a teal ATW stripe and use of the Frutiger font as opposed to a Swiss/Helvetica BR-style font (Newport's newer signs use Arial!).

Not a fan of Frutiger. It's cropped up in a load of new signs at Hereford now too.

Also not a fan of white-on-blue. Leave it to the Tube. Black on white should be the de rigeur colour scheme.

 

[Max]

l think that local branding should exist for urban areas to promote interchange between local stage-carriage services (and Trams/ferries where these exist). This could be rolled out on a similar basis to the Network West Midlands concept.

Elsewhere, a uniform standard could be introduced for non-urban areas across the rest of England.

Northern has done a good job of integrating this idea into a standardised network-wide design, with space for PTE and other relevant logos:

Esk Valley Partnership: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Sleights_railway_station_MMB_03.jpg
Travel South Yorkshire (thanks to 'Budby'):
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4403202395_32cece4efc.jpg
West Yorkshire Metro (thanks to 'travelfreaks'):
http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/9d9/178/fitzwilliam-train-station-uk-styal.jpg
GMPTE (thanks to 'Gene Hunt'):
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1141/592737849_200e3fa6ff_z.jpg

 

[LE Greys]

There's also the question of size. I can't help noticing that signs have shrunk over the years. Pre-nationalisation ones (found on most preserved lines and some restored stations) are massive. BR totems were smaller, but still readable, as were the later BR signs, although they were black-on-white and so clearer. Now, some privatisation-era signs are tiny. Southern is by far the worst for this, but they're not the only ones, they just compound it by slimming down the letters. Really, as many people have said above, we just need to agree on a certain standard and stick to it. It can't be that hard.

 

[Manchester77]

The iconic BR totem:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/7522948768/
When then progressed onto this in clear rail alphabet:-
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=51428
And then onto the distinctive, yet clear NSE in some areas:-
http://www.networksoutheast.net/uploads/3/5/5/9/3559064/2940821_orig.jpg
Giving the southern region a clear, uniform identity:-
http://benpedroche.typepad.com/.a/6a014e8ad9fc39970d016763c13414970b-pi
But then privatisation arrived and signs smaller than totem arrived:-
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2429220
How anyone on a train could see that is beyond me

 

[rebmcr]

When then progressed onto this in clear rail alphabet:-
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=51428

This one, with modularly removable TOC logo panels, would be my choice for a nationally-imposed standard.

 

[bronzeonion]

The iconic BR totem:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/7522948768/
When then progressed onto this in clear rail alphabet:-
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=51428
And then onto the distinctive, yet clear NSE in some areas:-
http://www.networksoutheast.net/uploads/3/5/5/9/3559064/2940821_orig.jpg
Giving the southern region a clear, uniform identity:-
http://benpedroche.typepad.com/.a/6a014e8ad9fc39970d016763c13414970b-pi
But then privatisation arrived and signs smaller than totem arrived:-
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2429220
How anyone on a train could see that is beyond me

The signage on your second link is what I feel should be adopted on the whole network. Plain and simple.

 

[L&Y Robert]

I'd like to make a plea for at least one station name sign per platform to be at right-angles to the direction of travel. I'd prefer two - one on approach, one on departure. "Where was that we just passed?" I hear, spoken anxiously as we slide through somewhere or other. "Couldn't make it out, we're going too fast to read them". There were plenty of signs, but too close to the train to read as they flick past.

 

[jon0844]

I definitely think we need standardised signs at stations, like we almost have at airports (I notice some, like Gatwick, are changing from black on yellow to yellow on black for example).

At some stations where signs are in a different format/design, it's not always obvious which signs are which. We joke about people being confused about platform numbers and car stop signs, but when some are different colours (and sizes) it's not necessarily that surprising. And more signs need to use icons/symbols that make it easy for foreigners to get about, as I notice has started appearing at some FCC stations for way out and so on.

The positioning of the signs so they can be seen at night for trains that have no announcements are also important, with better contrast signs and possibly reflective backgrounds to light up from the lights given by the train itself. Or perhaps LED illumination (solar powered) which will allow them to be easily read - without needing power run to each individual sign.

Personally, I don't even think TOCs need to 'brand' stations and furniture either, but that's for another thread.

I agree to a degree that there are more important things to worry about, but at the same time I do think signs are quite important. You only needed to go to St Pancras (which has improved now) or Heathrow T5 (again, has improved) a few years back to see how bad things could be, causing a lot of confusion.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I would like to see a return to the large running boards that were a feature of every station for about a hundred and fifty years. They were visible and did the job.

 

[AndrewP]

I think the Brunel font is ok but would prefer Gill Sans as used by the LNER and BR due to its sheer clarity and ease of reading.

I prefer dark on light but white on dark is still readable.

The other thing for signage is that it must be placed where it can be read and informs - so often visual clutter stops the signs being read no matter what the font or colour scheme

 

[pinguini]

I would like to see the study that showed white on blue was a good idea, or whether it was just pulled out of someone's arse who thought it would look nice

I'm more involved with the aviation industry rather than rail, but in the airport world, signage is taken incredibly seriously, with lots of research being done around colours etc. It's always been pretty conclusive that a black/yellow combination is most effective, hence why the airports under the old BAA ownership have the famous black text on yellow background signage all around the airport and when Gatwick was sold on, they simply swapped it to yellow text on black background due to BAA getting upset. You can read a little about the study of different colours here but to summarise for you, blue & white signs would have to be quite significantly larger (and therefore more costly) than certain other colours to actually be noticeable.

 

[Muzer]

Black text on yellow background is very nice, I completely agree. Yellow just doesn't feel like it'll fit into most existing colour schemes. But IMHO whatever the colours, it should be dark on light.

 

[jon0844]

Yellow on black works fine for Way Out on the Underground and perhaps you could mix dark on light and light on dark for different signs.

I've seen the style guide for London Underground and it's quite a hefty document. Sometimes when I see how a TOC has modified its signs at a station (which isn't even the same as others it runs) I wonder if it was more a case of someone just playing around with InDesign and coming up with something s/he felt looked nice.

 

[Muzer]

London Underground stations are always well-lit, being underground.

 

[jon0844]

Isn't half the network not actually underground, and what about the signs in the ticket halls at ground level etc?

I am not sure how or why this is relevant?

 

[warriorwarlord]

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned possibly the most widely used typeface on the rail system.
Rail Alphabet, designed for BR in the mid 1960's, it's been used more recently by First, Silverlink off the top of my head. It is a very effective and clear typeface, which can be integrated in with modern designs and colour schemes and doesn't look dated. Brunel is an attractive and perhaps more fresh looking font but IMO it doesen't have the same effectiveness as a sign in Rail Alphabet, which you just can't miss.

 

[Michael.Y]

Interesting to note that the Frutiger in use at Leominster and Hereford (and Cardiff I believe) has not permeated into North Wales -- Prestatyn's new signage was put up in RailAlphabet, and Ruabon is sporting some new signage, if rather clunky, given that they say Ruabon / Rhiwabon in one colour with the slash, rather than the teal/black ATW style.