Should station signage be uniform?

[charlee]

I was thinking that all stations on the network should have uniform designs when it comes to station signage. Was in camberley a few weeks back, and the station and surrounding stations had a simple blue with white font and a white line below. Was very smart.

All the network should follow this sort of design, it removes the need to change logos every time a new TOC takes over the station, and generally smarten up the network and unify it abut more.

Anyone agree or is am I being petty?

 

[tbtc]

I can see both sides of the argument.

If a franchise is ten/ fifteen years long then signs etc would need replacing at some stage anyway, and there's not a lot of money being spent each year on signs.

At the same time there are examples of BR signage still in use, after almost twenty years of privatisation.

As long as there are simple rules for smart signs (size of font, clarity etc) then I'm happy (even if colours differ between stations).

 

[306024]

I'll agree with you. As the East Anglia franchise has changed hands each time it has been up for grabs we have a variety of signs.

It would be fun to be in the meeting with all the TOC's as they try to reach agreement over which colour and font to use though.

 

[yorksrob]

To be fair, station signage is still miles ahead of bus stop signage where there is often only an extremely small sign with perhaps a number on it to tell where you are. If you're travelling somewhere for the first time, you often don't know it's your stop until you've whizzed past.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Each TOC wants to put their name on signs though.

 

[Nym]

Same kinda opinion here, but I'd go a bit further.

I'd look at having an ATOC standard for all station signage as replaced when it is up for replacement, making use of the ATOC (Former BR) double arrow, and a standard colour scheme.

On large, non-instructional boards, such as the station name signs, a proportion of the sign would be available for the operator to put their name on it, allowing a brand identity for the operator of the station on a significant level of signage, but this can easilly be changed with vynals.

The baseline standard would allow a grouped compliance with national standards for Equality Act, etc etc. Anyone who wants to know what I'm on about for signage standards, take a look round a somewhere like Westminster LUL and pay attention to the signage.

 

[bronzeonion]

I agree, alot of money is wasted on changing signs to the new TOC's colours and fonts. And when they try and make it chaeper to do it looks crap as its just a sticker stuck over the previous sign. I propose simple black Helvatica on white background.

 

[gswindale]

There was a report a couple of years ago that recommended this.

If I remember correctly, the colouring etc that SWT use meets with those recommendations.

It can also be seen on other parts of the network with changes such as a square in a different colour at one end of the sign or a line along the bottom in a different colour to identify which part of the network you're on.

 

[Clip]

Each TOC wants to put their name on signs though.

They can still have their name on the signage, just make it uniform signage. Like fsr is.

 

[W.Tregurtha]

I wish that it were possible to drop this dreadful American "signage" word and revert back to the proper English "Signing" word.

 

[Muzer]

Whatever, as long as everyone doesn't standardise on those horrible Network Rail white on blue signs that are impossible to see at night. I wish SWT hadn't capitulated in that regard. I remember the first time I passed Grateley at night with one of those new signs, took me forever to read them - the old black on white (or was it blue on white?) were much better.

 

[big_dirt]

I take the train from Tulse Hill to Elephant. Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Loughborough Jn. Three sequential stations with three different sign designs, three different tvm software, three different announcement voices and scripts and, from what I can tell, three different versions of the time! You couldn't set your watch by any one!

A different person has been paid to design each of these! It looks awful. There are safety implications in terms of recognition of directional signage.

They need to standardise the lot!

 

[Manchester77]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sinkplunger/3428884480/in/pool-class302-312|sinkplunger

See this picture, it's from the NSE days in fenchurch street. All the signage is co ordinated. You've not got a sign with a sticker over it that's falling off and then green poles and blue bins. It all co ordinated. This could never happen though because each TOC wants its own signage on. At stations with outs of TOCs serving it that aren't NR managed perhaps they could use the network rail signs with the symbol.

 

[ainsworth74]

At stations with outs of TOCs serving it that aren't NR managed perhaps they could use the network rail signs with the symbol.

But signage is coordinated at stations as the managing TOC is responsible for the signs. At Doncaster, for example, TPE, EC, XC, GC, EMT, NT and HT all serve the station but the only signs are East Coast because it's their station.

To be honest I think this is a storm in a tea cup and we have bigger fish to fry, however, if pressed then in my opinion all that is needed is a simple standard that lays out minimum font size, dark text on light background and railway alphabet used (or other clear font type) then I honestly couldn't care less what's done around that. For all I care a TOC could have a 5m x 5m sign most of which is a big advert for their brand. But as long as the station name or other information is the minimum font size, an approved font and dark/light contrast then what does it matter what the rest of the sign says?

 

[Goatboy]

In an ideal world the 'National Rail' branding should be used uniformly at all stations but its hardly a priority.

 

[gswindale]

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/better-rail-stations/report.pdf

Is the report from 2009. Ideally it was suggested that white "Brunel" text on a blue background be used (example on p35 with TOC branding underneath).

 

[Greenback]

I would like to see a simple standard as set out by ainsworth74 above, but with more icons like the ones used in Europe.

 

[Muzer]

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/better-rail-stations/report.pdf

Is the report from 2009. Ideally it was suggested that white "Brunel" text on a blue background be used (example on p35 with TOC branding underneath).

I would like to see the study that showed white on blue was a good idea, or whether it was just pulled out of someone's arse who thought it would look nice

 

[Nym]

Proberbly the latter.

The other way round with dark blue on white works much better...

 

[maniacmartin]

Stations being announced by the guard or driver would be nicer still.

I recall travelling on the FCC all-stations stopper Hatfield to London where none of the stations were announced, and it was so dark I couldn't read any of the station name signs out of the window. I had to rely on my phone's GPS to work out when to alight.

 

[Mojo]

l think that local branding should exist for urban areas to promote interchange between local stage-carriage services (and Trams/ferries where these exist). This could be rolled out on a similar basis to the Network West Midlands concept.

Elsewhere, a uniform standard could be introduced for non-urban areas across the rest of England.

 

[tbtc]

To be honest I think this is a storm in a tea cup and we have bigger fish to fry, however, if pressed then in my opinion all that is needed is a simple standard that lays out minimum font size, dark text on light background and railway alphabet used (or other clear font type) then I honestly couldn't care less what's done around that. For all I care a TOC could have a 5m x 5m sign most of which is a big advert for their brand. But as long as the station name or other information is the minimum font size, an approved font and dark/light contrast then what does it matter what the rest of the sign says?

I agree with all of that (as usual) - given the millions and billions spent on the railway, the cost of updating signs every ten years (or so) when a franchise expires is trivial (they'd need a lick of paint anyway - BR spent money updating theirs).

 

[SephenWorceste]

I love the signage and whole effect at the restored Birmingham Moor Street station. It is like preserved railway signage. I would hate to think that would be replaced by some National Rail brand.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I can see no need for uniform signs. A good quality sign can last donkeys years, eg enamel signs (basically coloured glass on steel), which were still around on some stations in the 70's. Now collectors items. This type of signs are still produced. No need for logos etc on them.
The TOC could have a separate sign eg Station owned by 'Network rail', Managed by 'Name of TOC' & as many logos as they like!!
A few old signs may now be dated, as language changes! Eg ''All Tickets must be Shewn''
Imo there is no reason why a station can't have individual signs, as long as they use the same terminology, eg 'Way Out' etc.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I wish that it were possible to drop this dreadful American "signage" word and revert back to the proper English "Signing" word.

At the risk of going off on a tangent, why?
Is it because you genuinely believe that 'signing' is a better word than 'signage' even though it can clearly be confused with the physical act of signing your name on a bit of paper or is it something else? Is it just an irrational hatred of Americanisms simply because they are Americanisms? In the grand scheme of things we (the British) are still way ahead of the language imposed on America than they are on us, and that balance is never going to change if you think it is in any way important.
Language evolves all the time, it doesn't matter where that evolution came from, it doesn't matter who thought of it as long as it works. It's not like all of a sudden we are tearing apart a language which has remained unchanged for centuries either, the English of today is quite different to the English of Charles Dickens, and the English of Dickens is barely recognisable from the English of Shakespeare. It will be different again in fifty years and the internet will both speed up the change and homogenise the changes that are made. In my opinion this is a good thing.

 

[Oswyntail]

The purpose of the signs is to convey information to station users. This information is usually generic ("Way Out" etc). People who are regulars at the station probably do not need it, therefore the most important "audience" is the traveller from somewhere else. It is more helpful for them if the signage (a perfectly decent English word) is in the same format as they are used to. So, IMHO, a UK-wide standard would be a good thing. Again IMHO, the latest BR standards (which won awards for design) were excellent, and could have a placeholder, as has been suggested, for the logo of the relevant operator. The "design" of the railways these days is too cluttered.

 

[142094]

There already are standards laid down to cover for Equality Act compliance and to floow European regulations - Accessible Train Station Design for Disabled People - A Code of Practice covers it in detail.

As with most things a simple uniform design with space to add TOC logos would be the easiest thing to do, but it should have been thought about before privatisation rather than years later.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I love the signage and whole effect at the restored Birmingham Moor Street station. It is like preserved railway signage. I would hate to think that would be replaced by some National Rail brand.

Best wishes, Stephen.

Chiltern really pulled out all the stops in making Birmingham Moor Street as attractive as possible. I suspect such a heritage-style scheme could be quite beneficial in making stations with a high proportion of tourists and visitors seem that bit more attractive.

I couldn't help but notice in these pictures that the signage is quite cluttered but not unobtrusive.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I think the Moor Street renovation had as much to do with Birmingham city council as it did with Chiltern. It was done to be opened at the same time as the Bullring, which was a huge deal for the city desperately trying to get rid of it's "concrete jungle" reputation.
If you don't know Birmingham very well, Moor Street station is literally a stones throw from the iconic Selfridges building, so it was in a perfect location to be a part of the facelift of the city, especially a city that is somewhat embarrassed about how ugly New Street and Snow Hill* stations are. I'm not sure how much each party paid for the Moor Street work, but the city definitely ponied up quite a bit of cash. It's good for Birmingham, which now has one of the nicest railway stations in the entire country in it's very centre.



*and yes, what happened to Snow Hill was a travesty and is rightfully a source of shame for those who made it happen.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Moor Street lifts my heart with every visit. I hope the new New Street will be equally impressive.

Best wishes, Stephen.