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Should Priti Patel be sacked?

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DerekC

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Presuming that Priti Patel isn't going to resign, should Johnson sack her if she has broken the Ministerial Code and bullied Home Office staff?


Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to set out his decision later on the findings of an inquiry into the conduct of Home Secretary Priti Patel.
Sources familiar with the Cabinet Office report told the BBC it concluded Ms Patel broke rules on ministers' behaviour.
She has always strongly denied allegations of bullying.
Labour has written to the Commons standards committee calling for a fresh investigation.
The party's shadow home secretary, Nick Thomas-Symonds, said the prime minister appeared to be involved in a "cover-up" and called for the full report to be published.
He told BBC Breakfast: "This has all the hallmarks of a prime ministerial cover-up and serious questions about his judgment.
Mr Thomas-Symonds added: "If these revelations are correct, it is tantamount to condoning bullying, and in no other workplace would this be acceptable. It smacks of one rule for the government and one rule for everyone else.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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No. It would send the wrong message imho. At last the Civil service is being stood up to. I also love it that the Conservative party is truly becoming more representative with a lot more women and a lot more from racial minorities. So for Priti to be Home Sec is great for democracy. I would hate for her to be fired. I still want to see Rishi or Sajid as PM though.
 
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ainsworth74

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She should never have been rehired after her previous breach of the ministerial code in pursuing her own foreign policy in Israel.
 

GusB

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No. It would send the wrong message imho. At last the Civil service is being stood up to. I also love it that the Conservative party is truly becoming more representative with a lot more women and a lot more from racial minorities. So for Priti to be Home Sec is great for democracy. I would hate for her to be fired. I still want to see Rishi or Sajid as PM though.
It would send right message: that bullying and harassment in the workplace is not to be tolerated. So what if she happens to be female and from an ethnic minority? A bully is a bully and they need to be kicked out no matter how many diversity boxes they happen to tick.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Perhaps I am too old school. If I was a male civil servant there is no way on gods earth I would complain about being bullied by a woman. But hey that is just me sorry.
 

GusB

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Perhaps I am too old school. If I was a male civil servant there is no way on gods earth I would complain about being bullied by a woman. But hey that is just me sorry.
This is exactly why bullying needs to be called out; women are equally as capable of bullying as men are, and it shouldn't be something to be embarrassed about. This also applies in domestic situations too. Much of the power that a bully wields over you is knowing that you won't challenge such behaviour, whether that be because of male pride, fear of being fired and them trying to convince you that the system is geared up to protect them rather than you.
 

fgwrich

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It would send right message: that bullying and harassment in the workplace is not to be tolerated. So what if she happens to be female and from an ethnic minority? A bully is a bully and they need to be kicked out no matter how many diversity boxes they happen to tick.
I Fully agree with this. How she can get away with claiming this was all un-intentional I don't know - I have never met, in all my years, an "unintentional bully". I hate talking about box ticking for jobs, but if I were to be chasing a replacement, I would advise Mr Javid (as previous home sec) to keep his phone warm.
 

GRALISTAIR

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This is exactly why bullying needs to be called out; women are equally as capable of bullying as men are, and it shouldn't be something to be embarrassed about. This also applies in domestic situations too. Much of the power that a bully wields over you is knowing that you won't challenge such behaviour, whether that be because of male pride, fear of being fired and them trying to convince you that the system is geared up to protect them rather than you.
Including from St Margaret of Finchley’s handbag? ( tongue in cheek of course! )
 

Class465pacer

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As an ethnic minority myself, yes. I couldn’t care less about her background if she’s guilty of whatever allegations there are against her
 

Ianno87

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No. It would send the wrong message imho. At last the Civil service is being stood up to. I also love it that the Conservative party is truly becoming more representative with a lot more women and a lot more from racial minorities. So for Priti to be Home Sec is great for democracy. I would hate for her to be fired. I still want to see Rishi or Sajid as PM though.

Why does the civil service need to be "stood up to"?
 

43096

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Why does the civil service need to be "stood up to"?
It sounds very much like the “drain the swamp” message from the retard in the White House (another bully...).

Patel has to go - a thoroughly unpleasant individual.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Why does the civil service need to be "stood up to"?
For the same reason the media so. They are not democratically elected and don’t run the country. Time for me to watch an episode of Yes Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey has his wings clipped.
 

jfollows

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Yes, she should be sacked, but she probably won't be.

What's the point of a "Ministerial Code" if people who don't abide by it get away with it?

She's a thoroughly unpleasant person who thinks she knows better than anyone else, and thinks she can get away with behaving as she pleases. Since she's devoted to Brexit, this has previously made her above normal sanction.
 

PHILIPE

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Boris hasn't got the bottle to sack her. Tory MPs are coming out in support of her as they did for Dominic Cummings on his Durham trip but now he has gone they have changed their minds and regret it. Priti Patel talks big on matters like immigration and stopping the boats and her tough rhetoric regarding the full force of the law being felt when we had BLM demonstrations. What happened ? Nothing.
 

Domh245

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They are not democratically elected and don’t run the country.

Given the rather shocking calibre of people elected to supposedly run the country, I'd much rather the faceless, unelected bureaucrats were the ones in charge
 

DynamicSpirit

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For the same reason the media so. They are not democratically elected and don’t run the country. Time for me to watch an episode of Yes Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey has his wings clipped.

They don't run the country - at least, in the sense of making policy decisions about what the Government should be doing. Elected Government ministers do that and have done that for decades. What the Civil Service has done for a very long time is provide professional advice to the Government on what the effect of various decisions would be, and then enact whatever decisions that Government makes, whether or not it matches the advice that was given. And I'm not aware of any significant reason to believe the Civil Service has failed in doing those duties.

Well at least, that's what happened until Dominic Cummings and Boris's Government came along with their attitude that anyone who questions them in any way is an enemy that needs to be disposed of, rather than a professional whose advice may need listening to. So no, the civil service doesn't need standing up to. What needs to happen is that Government ministers should start respecting the work of professionals and experts again.
 

SuspectUsual

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Should never have been brought back into government after her previous gross misconduct

Should she be sacked for a second time? Absolutely yes

Will she be? No

Of course, a minister with integrity would resign in this situation
 

DynamicSpirit

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Presuming that Priti Patel isn't going to resign, should Johnson sack her if she has broken the Ministerial Code and bullied Home Office staff?

I would say, yes, he should sack her. Apart from anything else, there's been a lot of focus the last few days on Boris wanting a reset now that Cummings is out of the way. A very good reset would be to demonstrate that from now on, members of the Government are expected to act ethically, and that there will be no more cases of people guilty of appalling misconduct getting off scot-free because of their loyalty to Boris. This isn't the first time that Priti Patel has acted in a very questionable manner, and there's no doubt that if this was any 'normal' administration, she would be returned to the backbenches almost immediately. If Boris doesn't do that, it would send the message that things haven't changed at all
 

brad465

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Boris hasn't got the bottle to sack her. Tory MPs are coming out in support of her as they did for Dominic Cummings on his Durham trip but now he has gone they have changed their minds and regret it. Priti Patel talks big on matters like immigration and stopping the boats and her tough rhetoric regarding the full force of the law being felt when we had BLM demonstrations. What happened ? Nothing.

Should never have been brought back into government after her previous gross misconduct

Should she be sacked for a second time? Absolutely yes

Will she be? No

Of course, a minister with integrity would resign in this situation
Ditto these comments. She should resign, but the whole cabinet is in place for loyalty rather than talent/competence, under the principle that a weak leader has to surround themselves with "yes folk" to stop their own power from being undermined/overthrown. Chances are if Johnson does leave soon himself that'll be the best chance for her to go, but that depends a lot on who comes in (even worse if she is the next leader).
 

Senex

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Should never have been brought back into government after her previous gross misconduct

Should she be sacked for a second time? Absolutely yes

Will she be? No

Of course, a minister with integrity would resign in this situation
I agree with you completely.

She won't be sacked because old-fashioned ideas of integrity no longer apply in politics and because Johnson believes more in cronyism than decent behavious and honour — but also because there seems to have been a huge change in political life over the last 50 or 60 years, with politicians clinging on to office as long as they possibly can, whatever excesses they have been proved to have committed.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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I think that even politicians are entitled to forgiveness and another chance, but they should have to spend a few years on the back-benches first
 

Snow1964

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Should never have been brought back into government after her previous gross misconduct

Should she be sacked for a second time? Absolutely yes

Will she be? No

Of course, a minister with integrity would resign in this situation

Totally agree

Last nights news report that the draft report was changed from bullying to unintentional bullying just smacks of a cover up.

Surely any form of shouting at a person, belittling someone, waving your firsts or throwing something at them is intentional. And if as alledged at least one person got reduced to tears by her actions, doesn’t sound like a momentary borderline case, but deliberate action, so she has to go.
 

SuspectUsual

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I think that even politicians are entitled to forgiveness and another chance, but they should have to spend a few years on the back-benches first

Regardless of what they’ve done wrong? So Patel conducting her own clandestine foreign policy involving undeclared meetings with a country in an absolute tinderbox environment is forgivable?

For me it isn’t. Partly because of the severity of the potential consequences of what she did, partly because it was absolutely deliberate, but mainly because doing it in the first place reveals an awful lot about her underlying character - arrogance, a belief the rules are for other people, and absolute disdain for anyone or anything getting in her way. And character traits like that don’t change

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

BBC now reporting Boris has backed Patel and his advisor on ministerial conduct has resigned. They really are the most shameless bunch
 

jfollows

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The author of the report, Alex Allan, has now resigned because Boris Johnson has refused to sack Priti Patel.

Report is at https://assets.publishing.service.g...37010/Findings_of_the_Independent_Adviser.pdf

"My advice is that the Home Secretary has not consistently met the high standards required by the Ministerial Code of treating her civil servants with consideration and respect. Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals. To that extent her behaviour has been in breach of the Ministerial Code, even if unintentionally."

Findings of the Independent Adviser

Sir Alex Allan was asked by the Prime Minister to provide advice about whether the facts established by the Cabinet Office in relation to the conduct of the Home Secretary showed adherence to the Ministerial Code.

Sir Alex’s advice is that

“The Ministerial Code says “Ministers should be professional in their working relationships with the Civil Service and treat all those with whom they come into contact with consideration and respect.” I believe Civil Servants – particularly Senior Civil Servants – should be expected to handle robust criticism but should not have to face behaviour that goes beyond that. The Home Secretary says that she puts great store by professional, open relationships. She is action orientated and can be direct. The Home Secretary has also become – justifiably in many instances – frustrated by the Home Office leadership’s lack of responsiveness and the lack of support she felt in DfID three years ago. The evidence is that this has manifested itself in forceful expression, including some occasions of shouting and swearing. This may not be done intentionally to cause upset, but that has been the effect on some individuals.

“The Ministerial Code says that “Harassing, bullying or other inappropriate or discriminating behaviour wherever it takes place is not consistent with the Ministerial Code...”. Definitions of harassment concern comments or actions relating to personal characteristics and there is no evidence from the Cabinet Office’s work of any such behaviour by the Home Secretary. The definition ofbullying adopted by the Civil Service accepts that legitimate, reasonable and constructive criticism of a worker’s performance will not amount to bullying. It defines bullying as intimidating or insulting behaviour that makes an individual feel uncomfortable, frightened, less respected or put down. Instances of the behaviour reported to the Cabinet Office would meet such a definition.

“The Civil Service itself needs to reflect on its role during this period. The Home Office was not as flexible as it could have been in responding to the Home Secretary’s requests and direction. She has – legitimately – not always felt supported by the department. In addition, no feedback was given to the Home Secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed.

“My advice is that the Home Secretary has not consistently met the high standards required by the Ministerial Code of treating her civil servants with consideration and respect. Her approach on occasions has amounted to behaviour that can be described as bullying in terms of the impact felt by individuals. To that extent her behaviour has been in breach of the Ministerial Code, even if unintentionally. This conclusion needs to be seen in context. There is no evidence that she was aware of the impact of her behaviour, and no feedback was given to her at the time. The high pressure and demands of the role, in the Home Office, coupled with the need for more supportive leadership from top of the department has clearly been a contributory factor. In particular, I note the finding of different and more positive behaviour since these issues were raised with her.”

The Ministerial Code states “Harassing, bullying or other inappropriate or discriminating behaviour wherever it takes place is not consistent with the ministerial code and will not be tolerated.”
 
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brad465

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This is breaking news so there's no major text yet, but it appears Johnson is backing Priti Patel and this has caused the bullying inquiry head to resign (I think going by that it's a safe bet she broke the code and the head can't stay in post and support that):


PM's adviser on ministerial code resigns as Boris Johnson backs Home Secretary Priti Patel after bullying inquiry
 

RichT54

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It doesn't surprise me at all that Boris hasn't sacked her and is effectively condoning her behaviour. It's yet another example of his complete incompetence.
 

DerekC

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It doesn't surprise me at all that Boris hasn't sacked her and is effectively condoning her behaviour. It's yet another example of his complete incompetence.
I completely agree about his incompetence, but it's worse than that. They think that their majority allows them to bend all the rules to suit themselves.
 

OneOffDave

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For the same reason the media so. They are not democratically elected and don’t run the country. Time for me to watch an episode of Yes Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey has his wings clipped.
Ministers need to be regularly reminded that that can't just do anything they want, elected representatives or not. They still have to act within the law. One of the many roles that civil servants undertake is to have the appropriate expert knowledge of their specialist area to point out to ministers where the boundaries lie.
 
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