Should more Stations be request stops?

[DarloRich]

Would they be the only overhead electrically served request stops? I'm struggling to think of any others. I presume that there are a number on the southern 3rd rail network

not yet

Are any of the stops on the Abbey Line request stops?

 

[IanD]

Would they be the only overhead electrically served request stops? I'm struggling to think of any others. I presume that there are a number on the southern 3rd rail network

I think they'd have to put some wires up first. Can't think of any 3rd rail request stops with overhead electricity either.

 

[notlob.divad]

Just another couple of stations that would be better as request stops rather than the service they currently get.

New Lane and Bescar Lane and Hoscar on the Wigan-Southport line. Rather than stopping a rather arbitrary number of services there a day, only stop the peak time services and everything else make request.

However, I will clarify the my initial post did hinge around the idea of using technology to inform the driver that a stop was needed, prior to arrival at the station thus preventing the need to slow down just in case and thus the associated lost time and lost energy associated with that.

 

[MedwayValiant]

About a decade ago, there was discussion about the future of Swale station on the Sheerness line. This station lies in the shadow of the Sheppey Crossing, and is not in or close to any built up area.

When it opened in 1922 it was only supposed to be a temporary facility. The second Kingsferry Bridge had been damaged by a ship hitting it, and for a year was restricted to pedestrians only. So a platform was built close to each end of the bridge, and passengers had to get off at these platforms and walk over the bridge.

Kingsferry North Halt closed as soon as the bridge reopened to rail traffic, but Kingsferry South Halt - or Swale, as it is now called - stayed open. It has a half hourly service all day (hourly on Sundays), but averages nine passengers per day.

There have been proposals to close it, to reduce it to a parliamentary service, and to make it a request stop, but none has been taken forward. That clearly isn't because of passenger demand - there basically isn't any - so is it simply because ceasing to stop at Swale wouldn't make journeys any quicker?

 

[2HAP]

I've been asked to justify my reasoning for a two-hourly request stop service.

I feel that a two-hourly train service should be the minimum that the public should be able to expect. Where station patronage is low, this can be catered for by a request stop. It may even encourage an increase in useage of stations that are not used much (e.g Shippea Hill, Buckenham, etc).

 

[Bletchleyite]

However, I will clarify the my initial post did hinge around the idea of using technology to inform the driver that a stop was needed, prior to arrival at the station thus preventing the need to slow down just in case and thus the associated lost time and lost energy associated with that.

The Swiss tend to have a pushbutton that shows something (not sure what) on the signal. I've also seen that setup for buses on fast dual carriageways in the Netherlands, FWIW.

 

[backontrack]

Personally, I don't so why we can't have more request stops - there's also an environmental side to it as there's no need to always stop. However, I don't think that Conwy should still be a request stop as it does see many passengers annually, as well as being a big tourism location.

 

[infobleep]

I'd vote for Worpolesden being a request stop on Sundays. If someone went for a walk they might use it to return home.

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Timetable wise though you will still have to stick a great wodge of performance time approaching the terminus or other long dwell to cater for any request stops you make.

The afternoon train times from Guildford to Waterloo are not any faster than during the week by missing out Worpolesden so I think there are places where it might work.

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[Agent_c]

However, I will clarify the my initial post did hinge around the idea of using technology to inform the driver that a stop was needed, prior to arrival at the station thus preventing the need to slow down just in case and thus the associated lost time and lost energy associated with that.

I don't think there's a technical problem to solve. Add in a few bells like the bus has in the train, and a signal operated by a pushbutton not unlike a road traffic crossing. Job done.

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't think there's a technical problem to solve. Add in a few bells like the bus has in the train, and a signal operated by a pushbutton not unlike a road traffic crossing. Job done.

But what happens on a line that doesn't have signals?

 

[TheEdge]

I've been asked to justify my reasoning for a two-hourly request stop service.

I feel that a two-hourly train service should be the minimum that the public should be able to expect. Where station patronage is low, this can be catered for by a request stop. It may even encourage an increase in useage of stations that are not used much (e.g Shippea Hill, Buckenham, etc).

Have you ever been to those two? They could have a train every ten minutes and would still be unused. They are both quite literally in the middle of a field.

 

[Agent_c]

But what happens on a line that doesn't have signals?

You install one. A big red light isn't that complicated.

 

[bramling]

About a decade ago, there was discussion about the future of Swale station on the Sheerness line. This station lies in the shadow of the Sheppey Crossing, and is not in or close to any built up area.

When it opened in 1922 it was only supposed to be a temporary facility. The second Kingsferry Bridge had been damaged by a ship hitting it, and for a year was restricted to pedestrians only. So a platform was built close to each end of the bridge, and passengers had to get off at these platforms and walk over the bridge.

Kingsferry North Halt closed as soon as the bridge reopened to rail traffic, but Kingsferry South Halt - or Swale, as it is now called - stayed open. It has a half hourly service all day (hourly on Sundays), but averages nine passengers per day.

There have been proposals to close it, to reduce it to a parliamentary service, and to make it a request stop, but none has been taken forward. That clearly isn't because of passenger demand - there basically isn't any - so is it simply because ceasing to stop at Swale wouldn't make journeys any quicker?

Swale is a slightly odd one as it was certainly shown as a request stop at one time (may still?), yet when I spoke to the guard to request alighting there I got a blank look and was told everything stops there.

Outwardly the 9 figure seems an underrepresentation, as every time I've been on a train stopping there there has been at least one or two people getting on or off. Goodness knows what there is to do there as there's nothing within the near catchment apart from marshland and water, and some main roads.

 

[Agent_c]

I've been asked to justify my reasoning for a two-hourly request stop service.

I feel that a two-hourly train service should be the minimum that the public should be able to expect. Where station patronage is low, this can be catered for by a request stop. It may even encourage an increase in useage of stations that are not used much (e.g Shippea Hill, Buckenham, etc).

Even on the Far a North or Kyle of Locklash line?

 

[Ianigsy]

The first time I did the Cumbrian Coast was on a Saturday morning Lancaster-Carlisle which ended up about twenty minutes late because there were punters at every request stop (and it was a 153+156 formation coupled "wrong way round", with the 153 at the north end and the 156 out of use, so that at every stop the guard had to usher people into the cramped 153). Another day that same train might have arrived on time or early depending on the uptake, which would make a stopping train difficult to path around other trains.

Request stops seem to be dabbled with from time to time on the Wrexham-Bidston line too- about 15-20 years ago about half the intermediate stops were marked as request stops in the timetable, but when I was going to Upton once in 1998 I asked the guard and was told "oh, we only do that when we're running late!". I think it was mainly to help the Class 101s to keep to the hourly timetable.

 

[theironroad]

You install one. A big red light isn't that complicated.

Lol, which would result in an emergency brake application and probably stopping way short of the platform..


However, choose another color that's not red/yellow or green and I think the idea of a suitably placed light linked to a button on the platform is actually a good idea.

 

[pitdiver]

You could make a couple of the Marston Vale stations ( Kempston Hardwick/Apsley Guise request stops if you really wanted to but I don't think it would serve any purpose or increase punctuality

Perhaps Lidlington and Millbrook are other contenders for request status.

With regards to Swale Stn, nearby there is some sort of slipway perhaps users of that facility alight at Swale. Therefore any service could be considered a"Boatrain" I'll get my coat!

 

[Llanigraham]

You install one. A big red light isn't that complicated.

It is if the line is like the Cambrian where there are NO signals!
ERTMS uses in-cab signalling.

 

[zuriblue]

As far as I'm aware no , its never been used routinely under DOO conditions in the Uk but it does operate abroad

I've seen it a fair amount in Switzerland. Normally passengers on the train press either the door button or a dedicated bell push, on the platform there's a button that illuminates a signal (diamoond shaped with a black band, 2 flashing lights in the band) . The signal continues to flash until the train clears the station starter.

 

[notlob.divad]

However, choose another color that's not red/yellow or green and I think the idea of a suitably placed light linked to a button on the platform is actually a good idea.

I choose Blue, no wait, Purple, no no, Indigo, Yes Indigo, there definitely needs to be some Indigo lights.

It is if the line is like the Cambrian where there are NO signals!
ERTMS uses in-cab signalling.

Still wouldn't necessarily stop you putting one up, I assume drivers still look out of the Window as well as at their in cab signalling. Any how in that case you put a smaller (Red/Blue/Indigo/Pink) light in the cab or a box on the screen or a little picture of a man with his hand out. Basically anything that can let the driver know before he approaches the station that someone wants to get on/off.

 

[Skutter]

Lol, which would result in an emergency brake application and probably stopping way short of the platform..


However, choose another color that's not red/yellow or green and I think the idea of a suitably placed light linked to a button on the platform is actually a good idea.

Could you use a flashing white light and a sighting board, same as for AHB crossings? When the passenger presses the button it turns out the light; treadle on the track to reset it. (Not sure exactly where you'd put the treadle) Wouldn't need any connection to the signalling system.

 

[Llanigraham]

Still wouldn't necessarily stop you putting one up, I assume drivers still look out of the Window as well as at their in cab signalling. Any how in that case you put a smaller (Red/Blue/Indigo/Pink) light in the cab or a box on the screen or a little picture of a man with his hand out. Basically anything that can let the driver know before he approaches the station that someone wants to get on/off.

Putting a light into the cab would mean there would have to be a method of communicating between the Joe Public button on the platform and the train. Making a suggestion like that suggests you don't know how the ERTMS system works. Be assured it won't happen with the present system.

Strikes me people are looking to find a cure to a problem that doesn't actually exist. Approaching the station at reduced speed and looking out for Joe Public sticking their hand out has worked for years and is still working. Why do we need technology to over-complicate something that works with all signalling systems?

 

[bramling]

Putting a light into the cab would mean there would have to be a method of communicating between the Joe Public button on the platform and the train. Making a suggestion like that suggests you don't know how the ERTMS system works. Be assured it won't happen with the present system.

Strikes me people are looking to find a cure to a problem that doesn't actually exist. Approaching the station at reduced speed and looking out for Joe Public sticking their hand out has worked for years and is still working. Why do we need technology to over-complicate something that works with all signalling systems?

As regards ERTMS, would it be difficult to arrange for limit of movement authority to coincide with the platform, linked to some kind of plunger on the platform?

I agree that I'm not sure how worthwhile this would be.

For request stops I'm not convinced how much value they add, as most of the time nowadays trains seem to stop at most, leading to very unpredictable schedules. I suspect the most value they may sometimes add is a potential means of making up time if running late.

 

[notlob.divad]

Putting a light into the cab would mean there would have to be a method of communicating between the Joe Public button on the platform and the train. Making a suggestion like that suggests you don't know how the ERTMS system works. Be assured it won't happen with the present system.

You would be correct I don't. Then again I am not entirely sure why it would need to be integrated with any system.

Strikes me people are looking to find a cure to a problem that doesn't actually exist. Approaching the station at reduced speed and looking out for Joe Public sticking their hand out has worked for years and is still working. Why do we need technology to over-complicate something that works with all signalling systems?

My original point was, that if you can tell the driver early enough whether or not they need to stop, you would be able to run through a stop where you are not required to stop at full line speed. Therefore some stations which currently get no service or stations which get an excessive service, particularly at certain times of the day/week could potentially become request stops outside the busy periods. The reason being that not slowing down/stopping and then having to get back up to full speed, when you don't have to would save quite a bit of energy if it could be applied in enough locations.

 

[Agent_c]

It is if the line is like the Cambrian where there are NO signals!
ERTMS uses in-cab signalling.

I don't see how that stops installing a big light (of some indeterminate colour) at the station which can be activated by a push button. The in cab stuff doesn't stop the driver looking for a arm stuck out...

 

[The Planner]

Adds another layer and cost of maintenance back in though. It is something that wasn't there before that now has to be looked after. You would need to prove consistent journey time savings to make it worthwhile, which as I alluded to earlier I don't think you could do.